me
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Post by me on May 5, 2015 9:25:08 GMT 7
I'd seriously advise against "buying" property in that country unless you have kids there and can buy in their name. All the houses and farms and residential land I've "bought" have all been for the kids. How old do the kids have to be to own property in Thailand? A child can own property at age 0. A guardian is responsible for the taxes etc. Property of a minor (20years) cannot be sold or long leased or mortgaged without the court approval and they will not give it even for such things as University fees.
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Krisb
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Post by Krisb on May 5, 2015 9:26:38 GMT 7
I think you will find that is the full total price. Not all places are the Multi million that the farang ghettos get. It is probably also listed for rent at a monthly rental. THey mean it is available to buy at that price if you want to. I looked at a nice little townhouse for 400000baht in Chiangrai but it was not a tourist one. Many townhowses though only have a lease on the land which legally can only be 30 years. Some have had the chanote divided into individual channotes. So your saying rather than list the place as a rental and for sale, they combine it under a heading of option to buy?
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Krisb
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Post by Krisb on May 5, 2015 9:28:31 GMT 7
And that is interesting the lease on the land of a townhouse. Does that apply for Thais as well?
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songhua
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Post by songhua on May 5, 2015 9:34:18 GMT 7
I think you will find that is the full total price. Not all places are the Multi million that the farang ghettos get. It is probably also listed for rent at a monthly rental. THey mean it is available to buy at that price if you want to. I looked at a nice little townhouse for 400000baht in Chiangrai but it was not a tourist one. Many townhowses though only have a lease on the land which legally can only be 30 years. Some have had the chanote divided into individual channotes. Yes, the one krisb linked appears to be the full price. The description says: 'Price 1,350,00 baht (including transfer fee)'. No mention of any further payment but maybe that price is for the dwelling but includes a thirty year land lease.
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me
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Post by me on May 5, 2015 9:37:29 GMT 7
Yes.
They are often built on one block and not divided into individual plots. ' Thais too. Foreighners cannot own land either and that is now sometimes being taken to include things like company leases or extended leases.
If your daughter is thai she can own the land but it would have to be divided off the chanote not a particuarly hard process and not that expensive say well under 50000 baht all up
Do not get fooled by the prices you see in Pattaya Hua Hin ChiangMai etc. Often these are well and truly inflated and if not are still way higher than properties elswhere.
Remember that townhouse you showed is really only a small flat.
A row of townhouses like this or shophouses would cost from 600000 (Very poor finish) to 1 Million to build generally acceptible but not perfect to 1.5 for a well equiped well finished place plust the land.
For an investment for a child I would suggest buying land and building a row of shophouses. Always rentable for income and can be sold or knocked down for her mansion at 20
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Post by Fletchsmile on May 5, 2015 9:42:20 GMT 7
Think TBH to fully understand, someone would have to ask the estate agent and ask them to take them through it. One possibility - not sure if it's the case here, but it's a structure I'm aware of: Because foreigners can't usually get a mortgage in their own name from banks, there are companies/ finance providers that will try and give you something similar. They are more like hire-purchase arrangements in nature. Basically they set up a company to own the property, the foreigner makes payments on it for the term of the loan, similar to a lease or HP. The buyer may make an up front payment for this arrangement, being a similar thing to a down payment, which one might consider the option to buy. Then if all payments are made over the years, and you honour your contract you get ownership with the last payment. At the end of the term the foreigner can then take ownership of the property, once all payments have been made and the debts paid, i.e they get the option/chance to buy/take title at the end. This structure facilitates the foreigner buying, and protects the lender in case of default. Foreclosure/ repossession is a lengthy process here, so if the lender retains title, and you the borrower default they already own the property. They still have to get round the issue of a foreigner buying with funds brought into Thailand, so there may be more companies in the structure: eg A Thai company that owns the property you lease/HP and a sister company that does the lending. This structure differs to a mortgage where someone buys a property, and they take out a mortgage loan to does so. Here the mortgagee/borrower still owns the property and the lender has a legal charge over it. If the borrower defaults, the lender has to try and foreclose to take possession, which is not an easy process here. In contrast in the other structure they can just kick you out as like HP/a lease you don't own it, and if you default they take it back. It's one of those structures that while might comply with the legal side, doesn't really follow the spirit of the law - i.e artificially creates a company whose sole purpose is to facilitate foreign ownership through lending. (Edit when I said above finance providers/ companies I'm not referring to banks, as they will go the legal conservative route, these are other finance providers/ companies who create these artificial structures) Really don't know if that's the case here, but it's a possibility. Not clear here whether the 1.35mio would be the option cost - bit like a down payment, or the full value. Cheers Fletch
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Krisb
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Post by Krisb on May 5, 2015 9:57:00 GMT 7
That property is the full asking price I'm sure of that. I'm fairly sure option to buy is a scheme similar as rent to buy. Probably you pay a higher price, or higher interest rate.
Anyhow, all Im doing guessing. Like Fletch says, best to ask a realestate agent.
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me
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Post by me on May 5, 2015 9:57:33 GMT 7
Think TBH to fully understand, someone would have to ask the estate agent and ask them to take them through it. One possibility - not sure if it's the case here, but it's a structure I'm aware of: Because foreigners can't usually get a mortgage in their own name from banks, there are companies/ finance providers that will try and give you something similar. They are more like hire-purchase arrangements in nature. Basically they set up a company to own the property, the foreigner makes payments on it for the term of the loan, similar to a lease or HP. The buyer may make an up front payment for this arrangement, being a similar thing to a down payment, which one might consider the option to buy. Then if all payments are made over the years, and you honour your contract you get ownership with the last payment. At the end of the term the foreigner can then take ownership of the property, once all payments have been made and the debts paid, i.e they get the option/chance to buy/take title at the end. This structure facilitates the foreigner buying, and protects the lender in case of default. Foreclosure/ repossession is a lengthy process here, so if the lender retains title, and you the borrower default they already own the property. They still have to get round the issue of a foreigner buying with funds brought into Thailand, so there may be more companies in the structure: eg A Thai company that owns the property you lease/HP and a sister company that does the lending. This structure differs to a mortgage where someone buys a property, and they take out a mortgage loan to does so. Here the mortgagee/borrower still owns the property and the lender has a legal charge over it. If the borrower defaults, the lender has to try and foreclose to take possession, which is not an easy process here. In contrast in the other structure they can just kick you out as like HP/a lease you don't own it, and if you default they take it back. It's one of those structures that while might comply with the legal side, doesn't really follow the spirit of the law - i.e artificially creates a company whose sole purpose is to facilitate foreign ownership through lending Really don't know if that's the case here, but it's a possibility. Not clear here whether the 1.35mio would be the option cost - bit like a down payment, or the full value. Cheers Fletch Last person to talk to here is an estate agent(they are not like in the west they are even moreshifty) This kind of structure can only apply to condos but recently they are indicating big risks in this. My thing is do not make shady deals and preferaby deal direct with the person selling.
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Krisb
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Post by Krisb on May 5, 2015 9:58:22 GMT 7
Yes. They are often built on one block and not divided into individual plots. ' Thais too. Foreighners cannot own land either and that is now sometimes being taken to include things like company leases or extended leases. If your daughter is thai she can own the land but it would have to be divided off the chanote not a particuarly hard process and not that expensive say well under 50000 baht all up Do not get fooled by the prices you see in Pattaya Hua Hin ChiangMai etc. Often these are well and truly inflated and if not are still way higher than properties elswhere. Remember that townhouse you showed is really only a small flat. A row of townhouses like this or shophouses would cost from 600000 (Very poor finish) to 1 Million to build generally acceptible but not perfect to 1.5 for a well equiped well finished place plust the land. For an investment for a child I would suggest buying land and building a row of shophouses. Always rentable for income and can be sold or knocked down for her mansion at 20 I like that idea as an investment.
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Krisb
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Post by Krisb on May 5, 2015 10:01:44 GMT 7
Think TBH to fully understand, someone would have to ask the estate agent and ask them to take them through it. One possibility - not sure if it's the case here, but it's a structure I'm aware of: Because foreigners can't usually get a mortgage in their own name from banks, there are companies/ finance providers that will try and give you something similar. They are more like hire-purchase arrangements in nature. Basically they set up a company to own the property, the foreigner makes payments on it for the term of the loan, similar to a lease or HP. The buyer may make an up front payment for this arrangement, being a similar thing to a down payment, which one might consider the option to buy. Then if all payments are made over the years, and you honour your contract you get ownership with the last payment. At the end of the term the foreigner can then take ownership of the property, once all payments have been made and the debts paid, i.e they get the option/chance to buy/take title at the end. This structure facilitates the foreigner buying, and protects the lender in case of default. Foreclosure/ repossession is a lengthy process here, so if the lender retains title, and you the borrower default they already own the property. They still have to get round the issue of a foreigner buying with funds brought into Thailand, so there may be more companies in the structure: eg A Thai company that owns the property you lease/HP and a sister company that does the lending. This structure differs to a mortgage where someone buys a property, and they take out a mortgage loan to does so. Here the mortgagee/borrower still owns the property and the lender has a legal charge over it. If the borrower defaults, the lender has to try and foreclose to take possession, which is not an easy process here. In contrast in the other structure they can just kick you out as like HP/a lease you don't own it, and if you default they take it back. It's one of those structures that while might comply with the legal side, doesn't really follow the spirit of the law - i.e artificially creates a company whose sole purpose is to facilitate foreign ownership through lending Really don't know if that's the case here, but it's a possibility. Not clear here whether the 1.35mio would be the option cost - bit like a down payment, or the full value. Cheers Fletch Last person to talk to here is an estate agent(they are not like in the west they are even moreshifty) This kind of structure can only apply to condos but recently they are indicating big risks in this. My thing is do not make shady deals and preferaby deal direct with the person selling. But it's not just condos and townhouses using option to buy. There's houses also.
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Post by Fletchsmile on May 5, 2015 10:08:40 GMT 7
Yes. They are often built on one block and not divided into individual plots. ' Thais too. Foreighners cannot own land either and that is now sometimes being taken to include things like company leases or extended leases. If your daughter is thai she can own the land but it would have to be divided off the chanote not a particuarly hard process and not that expensive say well under 50000 baht all up Do not get fooled by the prices you see in Pattaya Hua Hin ChiangMai etc. Often these are well and truly inflated and if not are still way higher than properties elswhere. Remember that townhouse you showed is really only a small flat. A row of townhouses like this or shophouses would cost from 600000 (Very poor finish) to 1 Million to build generally acceptible but not perfect to 1.5 for a well equiped well finished place plust the land. For an investment for a child I would suggest buying land and building a row of shophouses. Always rentable for income and can be sold or knocked down for her mansion at 20 Yes foreigners not being able to own land is one of the biggest barriers to foreign ownership of a real house. It's possible they will own the house and lease the land or some other structure, eg usufruct. It's easier for foreigners to buy condos, as the landownership rule is complied with if 51% or more of the condo ownership is Thai. There are still then further drawbacks to a foreigner obtaining finance: 1) For a foreigner purchase the money usually needs to come from abroad. Hence that makes it difficult for a local Thai bank to lend as many don't have big overseas operations or sometimes none. Even if they do, additional legal structures are needed, which adds to the cost. 2) Foreign banks don't lend as if they had to repossess/foreclose it is messy as they are foreign and also need to comply with foreign ownership rules. That means they could lend to you, but if you default they need a Thai company to take ownership 3) Banks like the mortgagee and owner name to match as it makes economic sense. i.e owner and borrower the same name. Otherwise the borrower can default but the owner has the issue 4) There are other rules as to the purpose of loans to foreigners The two most legal ways of foreigners legally getting their place to live: A) Mortgage in your wife's name - guaranteed by you. We did this one. Of course you as foreigner don't legally own it, and are just a guarantor for the finance. You also have to sign at the land office that it belongs to the wife B) On a condo, certain private banks/ banks for high net worth individuals (HNWI) will lend to you offshore, with an arrangement with an onshore Thai comapny in case you default. eg StanChart private wealth would lend to someone in USD/SGD for condos in selected locations in Thailand. You had to have USD 1mio of assets with them to borrow. Then Stan Chart Thailand takes a legal charge over your assets. There's a legal arrangement between Stan Chart Thailand and Stan Chart Singapore which adds to the cost. Because of all the additional costs it's not worth doing on small amounts, hence HNWI only. Don't know if they still offer it, but saw it in practice, and it was originally hassle for them to get thru all the compliance hurdles Cheers Fletch
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Post by Fletchsmile on May 5, 2015 10:11:59 GMT 7
.... Cheers Fletch Last person to talk to here is an estate agent(they are not like in the west they are even moreshifty) This kind of structure can only apply to condos but recently they are indicating big risks in this. My thing is do not make shady deals and preferaby deal direct with the person selling. I'd be OK to go to an estate agent to ask them how it works. Then do my own checks and balances. I wouldn't want to take out this type of arrangement myself though. It can be extended to houses, but you will only own the house, and a Thai company owns the land, with you having side agreements. Again myself, would rather stay clear
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Post by Fletchsmile on May 5, 2015 10:15:18 GMT 7
But it's not just condos and townhouses using option to buy. There's houses also. Yes, but possible to own the house but without the land, and could have separate agreements on the land as to use or leasing it Would rather go with legal options myself too, and if financing either buy in Thai wife's name or via offshore loan from a reputable lender. Unless you want to pay cash - even then, best bet for me is the wife to own the land.
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me
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Post by me on May 5, 2015 10:15:30 GMT 7
Last person to talk to here is an estate agent(they are not like in the west they are even moreshifty) This kind of structure can only apply to condos but recently they are indicating big risks in this. My thing is do not make shady deals and preferaby deal direct with the person selling. But it's not just condos and townhouses using option to buy. There's houses also. Do not get hung up on the option to buy it is not the Option you are thinking. Also remember this website is just like this forum......a premade package to buy to run what you want on it. It is not made with the laws and useage of England. It is what the writer of the software package used. A real user maymake it more suitible. Most just use the preset options. In this case it just means that the place may be (not that it is necescarily) available to buy. After all advertising nonexisting product is ilegal and they may be trying to cover their backs.
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songhua
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Post by songhua on May 5, 2015 10:22:40 GMT 7
Long-term (30 year) leases are quite common in Thailand yet there are never listings for them by that description. The explanation might quite simply be that 'option to buy' is how they're offered. .. Edit: note that the first choice in an English search is: - For sale - For rent - Option to buy .. .... but in a Thai search it is: - khaay (for sale) - chao (for rent) - khaay down (deposit/downpayment)
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