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Post by rgs2001uk on Mar 7, 2019 20:39:43 GMT 7
Fletch, You do bring up the interesting big-picture point, that being younger, not in a stable relationship, and not employed do add up to a situation where for most people, you are better of elsewhere that you can gain opportunities to be properly employed, and to be honest, find a relationship with someone who is not from an almost diametrically opposed culture.I actually was about to leave when I was younger and with no job prospects, but at the last minute found a remote job. Hard to say whether it was good or bad. It's a shame not to have the benefit of experience and seeing the bigger picture perspective from when you are a teenager planning your life, or at least having the guidance of someone you respect (and is worthy of respect).AyG, Yes that is basically why I am here also, I don't want to be back in Sydney. I can't imagine any other parts of SE Asia would be better than here though. It's a shame that I never tried other developed countries though, or at least other cities in oz. 1. I have commented on this before, little did I realise all those years ago I would find myself half way around the world and meet people who held the same views as I do, its probably one of the main reasons for me being attracted to my mrs. 2. I have learned in my years as an expat, you cant put an old head on young shoulders, no offence, but would you have listened, seen way to many lose it, cant handle this place, the worst example I can think off is a guy dying of aids after shagging whores in pattaya. Been too long in exile, these days I just act dumb and keep my mouth shut, been here too long, gone native, if anyone asks, bog standard reply, mai roo.
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Mar 8, 2019 5:22:17 GMT 7
"I have learned in my years as an expat, you cant put an old head on young shoulders, no offence, but would you have listened",
When I was in my teens and twenties I would rarely listen to "older heads" but that's the way younger people are, even today. The trouble today is that older heads proliferate and many of them are merely old rather than wise or experienced. And for whatever self serving reasons, many of those older heads often know very little about either life or about Thailand, we will likely all have met some at various times, usually, the conversation starts with, "I've lived in Thailand for xx years", or similar.
So people can be forgiven for not listening to experience because it's so damned hard to know who to trust and believe, especially in Thailand. Social media magnifies this problem because it gives everyone a platform to have their say, even that old Thailand/Asia hand who lives in a bed sit in Bromley and has never ventured further than the beach at Hastings.
Getting a consensus across a group of seemingly well informed and rational people is your best hope, that's the upside of social media sites such as this one.
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fk
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Post by fk on Mar 8, 2019 10:45:02 GMT 7
I think " you cant put an old head on young shoulders" is in some ways true, but it implies that you need experience to learn which is demonstrably false. How many of us ignore wiser people who say to be wary of snakes and have to be bitten by a snake before we learn to be cautious of snakes? You definitely can learn from others without having to make the mistake yourself. The issues I see are 1. Those "wiser" people are often either unwilling or unable to articulate themselves. "Just don't do [whatever]" is obviously not something I am going to listen to, I'm not a sheep. There needs to be actual logic-based reasoning in there for me to listen. Parents are the worst at this because they spent a decade or two telling kids what to do without reasons because explaining reasoning for literally everything is just too much, and as the child ages and can understand reasoning, parents continue to give none because they gave none when the child was an infant and it worked then so why change. Obviously as the child gets older they will disregard advice from someone given without reasoning (unless you brought them up to be a brainless sheep). 2. As chiangmai pointed out, older certainly does not mean wiser. The number of older people who have little clue about almost anything is extraordinary. That person may be wiser than when "they" were 20, but it means nothing compared to any other individual who happens to be 20. And yes the best example of this is Thai society where you get respect for being older, yet look at older Thai people - they lie, steal, cheat, have kids so they can leech off them like parasites for the rest of their life - yet somehow based on the culture you must show respect to them. It's ridiculous.
I think educated young people would happily listen to advice that comes with reasoning where they can not poke holes in the reasoning, They don't need to make their own mistakes. They just need someone worthy of taking advice from and in the absence of that, of course you need to make the mistakes your self.
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Mar 8, 2019 12:18:08 GMT 7
A couple of points before we get too philosophical here!
You should probably insert the word, "always" in what you wrote, being older doesn't always mean wiser. In many cases age does equate to wisdom so being older is not necessarily a show stopper when it comes to advice giving.
In this scenario, there is an advice seeker and an advice giver, I wouldn't look for too many advice givers to quantify their advice, why should they, they offer it in good faith and if it's questioned or challenged that's the prerogative of the advice seeker, but I certainly wouldn't expect BBC Question Time to follow, why should it, the alternative is to say nothing and to let the advice seeker find out on their own, up to you as they say in Thailand!
There are times when it's wise to be a sheep, questioning everything is a sign of immaturity, and as I said earlier, considering the source is key and vital to any piece of advice is it not.
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fk
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Post by fk on Mar 8, 2019 12:42:15 GMT 7
When is it wise to be a sheep?
And how exactly is questioning things a sign of immaturity?
The only reason I can think of for someone to say this is when the person giving advice can not backup their arguments and may lose face over the fact that what they have said is uncovered to be incorrect. I'm curious to hear what other explanation there could be to say questioning things is a sign of immaturity.
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Mar 8, 2019 13:05:15 GMT 7
When is it wise to be a sheep?
And how exactly is questioning things a sign of immaturity?
The only reason I can think of for someone to say this is when the person giving advice can not backup their arguments and may lose face over the fact that what they have said is uncovered to be incorrect. I'm curious to hear what other explanation there could be to say questioning things is a sign of immaturity.
You leave out words from my statements, I wrote, "questioning everything is a sign of immaturity". I don't know how you step through life but for my part I make a call whether to accept or question what is presented, I think most others do similar, only a fool would question everything.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Mar 8, 2019 20:44:19 GMT 7
I think " you cant put an old head on young shoulders" is in some ways true, but it implies that you need experience to learn which is demonstrably false. How many of us ignore wiser people who say to be wary of snakes and have to be bitten by a snake before we learn to be cautious of snakes? You definitely can learn from others without having to make the mistake yourself. The issues I see are 1. Those "wiser" people are often either unwilling or unable to articulate themselves. "Just don't do [whatever]" is obviously not something I am going to listen to, I'm not a sheep. There needs to be actual logic-based reasoning in there for me to listen. Parents are the worst at this because they spent a decade or two telling kids what to do without reasons because explaining reasoning for literally everything is just too much, and as the child ages and can understand reasoning, parents continue to give none because they gave none when the child was an infant and it worked then so why change. Obviously as the child gets older they will disregard advice from someone given without reasoning (unless you brought them up to be a brainless sheep). 2. As chiangmai pointed out, older certainly does not mean wiser. The number of older people who have little clue about almost anything is extraordinary. That person may be wiser than when "they" were 20, but it means nothing compared to any other individual who happens to be 20. And yes the best example of this is Thai society where you get respect for being older, yet look at older Thai people - they lie, steal, cheat, have kids so they can leech off them like parasites for the rest of their life - yet somehow based on the culture you must show respect to them. It's ridiculous.
I think educated young people would happily listen to advice that comes with reasoning where they can not poke holes in the reasoning, They don't need to make their own mistakes. They just need someone worthy of taking advice from and in the absence of that, of course you need to make the mistakes your self.
I sometimes wonder if I live in a different Thailand, a parallel universe. I dont think its an age thing, more a status thing, never mind tell the dumb farang any old bs and palm it off as Thai culture. More like, I am too low on the totem pole of Thai society to question this person, so, take the middle path, conflict avoidance, i can save face by saying I respect this persons age. I live amongst them, believe me, they do question, no only question, you should hear some of the language used if they suspect there is a loss of face involved. Another favourite of mine, what exactly is Thai culture? Chinese culture, Muslim culture, Southern Thai culture? Isaan culture, tell the farang its "Thai" culture the youngest daughter is responsible for taking care of the parents, next village tell the dumb farang its culture for the oldest daughter, no wonder somchai and his mates are wetting their pants with laughter.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Mar 11, 2019 21:36:13 GMT 7
"I have learned in my years as an expat, you cant put an old head on young shoulders, no offence, but would you have listened", When I was in my teens and twenties I would rarely listen to "older heads" but that's the way younger people are, even today. The trouble today is that older heads proliferate and many of them are merely old rather than wise or experienced. And for whatever self serving reasons, many of those older heads often know very little about either life or about Thailand, we will likely all have met some at various times, usually, the conversation starts with, "I've lived in Thailand for xx years", or similar. So people can be forgiven for not listening to experience because it's so damned hard to know who to trust and believe, especially in Thailand. Social media magnifies this problem because it gives everyone a platform to have their say, even that old Thailand/Asia hand who lives in a bed sit in Bromley and has never ventured further than the beach at Hastings. Getting a consensus across a group of seemingly well informed and rational people is your best hope, that's the upside of social media sites such as this one. I have thought about this over the weekend, and its nothing to do with Thailand or even being an expat. I have walked away from what would be considered, dream jobs, I knew at the time what I was walking away from, and also couldnt come back. As mentioned above, I was in my 20s and 30s, both times my bosses said to me, good luck, wish I could do the same. First boss, in his 40s, caught up in the career programme, mortgage not yet paid off, kids schoolfees etc etc, like a hamster in a wheel, he was looking across at his boss (in his 50s), came in everyday, did the bare minimum, went thru the motions, dead mans shoes, he was never going to get promoted, bored out his mind, he was dreaming of the day he would be offered a redudancy package with a pension. Second job was more of a eff you, my boss was too busy kissing ass elsewhere trying to get promotion, he expected me to do his and my job, couldnt understand why I didnt buy into it, that one was funny, had some agency phone me, offering me the same job I had resigned from. There are two jobs in the UK I walked away from, I would go back to tomorrow for the same money I was on years ago, not interested in promotion, dont need the money. One job, I remember my boss and I looking out the window at the bowser driver emptying the septic tanks and both thinking at the same time, what a job, no worries, hassle free.
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Post by Fletchsmile on Mar 12, 2019 17:41:30 GMT 7
.... 2. As chiangmai pointed out, older certainly does not mean wiser. The number of older people who have little clue about almost anything is extraordinary. That person may be wiser than when "they" were 20, but it means nothing compared to any other individual who happens to be 20. And yes the best example of this is Thai society where you get respect for being older, yet look at older Thai people - they lie, steal, cheat, have kids so they can leech off them like parasites for the rest of their life - yet somehow based on the culture you must show respect to them. It's ridiculous.
I think educated young people would happily listen to advice that comes with reasoning where they can not poke holes in the reasoning, They don't need to make their own mistakes. They just need someone worthy of taking advice from and in the absence of that, of course you need to make the mistakes your self.
Looking back over my time in Thailand, I'd say a fair bit of that spills over to foreigners living here too
So many foreigners in their early years in Thailand repeat the mantras about Thailand that older barstool "experts" repeat - particularly where negative.
Perhaps one difference though is that they sometimes listen to the mistakes of these experts too much, rather than giving things a try for themselves and making a few mistakes and learning from it.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Mar 13, 2019 21:17:19 GMT 7
.... 2. As chiangmai pointed out, older certainly does not mean wiser. The number of older people who have little clue about almost anything is extraordinary. That person may be wiser than when "they" were 20, but it means nothing compared to any other individual who happens to be 20. And yes the best example of this is Thai society where you get respect for being older, yet look at older Thai people - they lie, steal, cheat, have kids so they can leech off them like parasites for the rest of their life - yet somehow based on the culture you must show respect to them. It's ridiculous.
I think educated young people would happily listen to advice that comes with reasoning where they can not poke holes in the reasoning, They don't need to make their own mistakes. They just need someone worthy of taking advice from and in the absence of that, of course you need to make the mistakes your self.
Looking back over my time in Thailand, I'd say a fair bit of that spills over to foreigners living here too
So many foreigners in their early years in Thailand repeat the mantras about Thailand that older barstool "experts" repeat - particularly where negative.
Perhaps one difference though is that they sometimes listen to the mistakes of these experts too much, rather than giving things a try for themselves and making a few mistakes and learning from it.
, thanks for the trip down memory lane, correct, if I had listened to them, I would never had invested in the SET at 2**, would never have bought a condo for a months wages back in the day.mind you it must be said, these were the same old china hands that couldnt afford to go to a hospital, there was an alkie doctor struck off in the Uk that used to hold a sunday afternoon session, sorry surgery in washington square, in another bar in same sqaure were the same idiots telling me I should buy some two striper somchai a drink, he was their inside track to visa problems at suan plu, best of luck to somchai, he used to rock up and drink for free.
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Apr 9, 2019 7:03:39 GMT 7
Since I will not be implementing my new pension portfolio on the HL platform before I return to the UK next month I have been using the time to read watch and learn, inevitably that has led to a tweak or two! Oh no I hear you cry, not again!! In fact, what I have done is to take on earlier advice that I had previously disregarded and I have dumped Jupiter European, as AyG had strongly suggested. The reason I have done so is that a majority of sources I read have suggested being underweight Europe plus, a Europe only fund leaves no room for escape by the fund manager if things go tits up, despite Europe being a large diverse entity in its own right. The second reason I did this was to reduce the overall risk level of my holdings and to reduce average volatility levels and number f funds. So thank you AyG, it took a while but I finally got there. I've gone full circle and am now back at 75/25%, equities/bonds which I now think is quite OK, from what I've read and the performance I've observed, I don't think this model is dead, yet. US allocation remains high at 20% but it is the biggest market in the world and Trump seems determined to make it rock. EM Asia at 9% made me pause for a moment but then of course that includes China which I think is a gamble worth taking. UK at 17%, in spite of Brexit, whatever are you thinking some will say....CM stands up, salutes and bursts into choruses of Rule Britannia. Attachment Deleted
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Apr 9, 2019 20:10:10 GMT 7
Embedded comments because I'm lazy inevitably that has led to a tweak or two! Oh no I hear you cry, not again!! I really think you need to learn to buy and hold. You do appear to be rather too focused on short term performance. My best investments are ones I bought 15, 20 years ago or more and have held ever since. Identify really great managers and stick with them.
I've gone full circle and am now back at 75/25%, equities/bonds which I now think is quite OK, from what I've read and the performance I've observed, I don't think this model is dead, yet. I don't have an issue with the allocation. I think Fletch recently posted about an 80/20 allocation. However, then you write about "the performance I've observed", you're thinking on far, far too short a timescale.US allocation remains high at 20% but it is the biggest market in the world and Trump seems determined to make it rock. When you write "to make it rock", do you actually meant "make it to rock bottom"? Trump is fiscally ignorant and is packing the Federal Reserve with people who are equally fiscally ignorant (but will do whatever the orange ignoramus demands). This is a very worrying situation. Currently I'm only 5% invested in the US of A. (That's a fairly recent development. Before that, for at least a decade it was 0%. I believe that the American empire is going to crumble and fall.) I suspect I'll be back to 0% fairly shortly.
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Apr 9, 2019 20:55:35 GMT 7
Embedded comments because I'm lazy inevitably that has led to a tweak or two! Oh no I hear you cry, not again!! I really think you need to learn to buy and hold. You do appear to be rather too focused on short term performance. My best investments are ones I bought 15, 20 years ago or more and have held ever since. Identify really great managers and stick with them.
I've gone full circle and am now back at 75/25%, equities/bonds which I now think is quite OK, from what I've read and the performance I've observed, I don't think this model is dead, yet. I don't have an issue with the allocation. I think Fletch recently posted about an 80/20 allocation. However, then you write about "the performance I've observed", you're thinking on far, far too short a timescale.US allocation remains high at 20% but it is the biggest market in the world and Trump seems determined to make it rock. When you write "to make it rock", do you actually meant "make it to rock bottom"? Trump is fiscally ignorant and is packing the Federal Reserve with people who are equally fiscally ignorant (but will do whatever the orange ignoramus demands). This is a very worrying situation. Currently I'm only 5% invested in the US of A. (That's a fairly recent development. Before that, for at least a decade it was 0%. I believe that the American empire is going to crumble and fall.) I suspect I'll be back to 0% fairly shortly."I really think you need to learn to buy and hold. You do appear to be rather too focused on short term performance". Your observation is seriously wide of the mark, in reality, what I am and always have been attempting to do is to identify holdings that I can buy and hold, my criteria for that is that the funds are well spread geographically and that each fund is managed by a well-regarded FM. As things stand, six of the nine funds are managed by Alpha rated managers. "then you write about "the performance I've observed", you're thinking on far, far too short a timescale". The performance model I mention here is the same one that UK IFA's have been promoting for many many years and with good reason, it was you who argued that model might be dead. I continue to see anecdotal evidence that the model still performs as well today as it has for many years, where you get the idea this is short term thinking escapes me completely. I'm not going to say much about your last point because I understand full well your views on Trump. From where I sit the US remains the worlds largest economy and the investment aspect of its economy the most researched of any country globally. Perhaps if I had your crystal ball I might be tempted to reduce my US holdings to zero also. But since I don't I'm going with well regarded FM's who have sufficiently diverse geographic holdings to be able to dip in and dip out of the US market, as conditions permit. I think it's great that 15 or 20 years ago you were able to successfully identify funds that you continue to hold today, bravo, well done, f**ing outstanding! But expecting others to be able to do the same thing with the same degree of success is frankly a fantasy, especially as a novice at age 70, perhaps you will moderate your future comments on this subject in that context. In truth AyG I'm getting fairly hacked off at your continued unconstructive and unfounded criticism so I think we'll call it a day on this subject. OUT.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Apr 10, 2019 13:54:01 GMT 7
If you don't want feedback, don't post in topics with titles like "Evaluate My Portfolio".
And another free piece of advice: don't be such a pompous prick.
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Apr 10, 2019 14:51:57 GMT 7
If you don't want feedback, don't post in topics with titles like "Evaluate My Portfolio". And another free piece of advice: don't be such a pompous prick. That’s much better AyG, there’s no point trying to hide behind the guise of pretending to offer advice when all you really intend is to follow your well trodden path in this thread of hurling insults, a good old fashioned, f**k you is much less unambiguous - in future please don’t waste time with feints. Don’t expect to post shite and insults and there not be a come back or fall out, those days of tolerating them are over. As for the funds: I’ve held three of the nine funds for the past nine years, LT Global, BG Inter. And Royal London Sterling EY. Of the remaining six, four were lifted from the popular, Pensioners Portfolio, designed for older posters.... and the last two were suggestions I accepted from Fletch. So short term-ism you say, hmm, bollocks I say!
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