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Post by Fletchsmile on Sept 12, 2019 12:03:11 GMT 7
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Post by Fletchsmile on Sept 12, 2019 12:14:30 GMT 7
So basically, simplifying: 1) you're responsible for TM28 as the alien. 2) You aren't responsible for TM30 (unless you own the place). That is the house-master, owner, possessor, hotel manager etc 3) Day to day there may seem little come back if you completely ignore it all. BUT: The problems may arise when you go to immigration for other purposes which involve your residence: eg extension of stay eg getting a Cert of Residence and they want to see that a TM30 has been done. Issue 1: They may want to see evidence of TM30, as a condition of whatever you're doing. Although you are the alien and its not actually your responsibility to do, some of them couldn't care less. You may have no control over it, and be fraught with impracticailities, but they see that as your problem if it hasn't been done. They want to see evidence of it and may refuse to progress other stuff without it Issue 2: To file a TM28 for any reason, they want to see a TM30 has been filed. So it becomes a catch 22 for your TM28 filing
Plus of course difference offices and officers throughout the country doing things differently/ their way because they can
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Post by Fletchsmile on Sept 12, 2019 12:39:13 GMT 7
For most of us on here, we either own our own place or our partner does. So: In both cases just register online, and file TM30s online as and when you think needed, bearing in mind: 1) make sure it's done in particular: A) when you first arrive in the country from the airport and B) just before you do any official visits to bureaucracy 2) if you stay in a hotel, they will update you in the system from their records, so it could look odd if you don't log the return. If you want a compete audit trail you'll need to update when you return.
This is in contrast to a trip to nakhorn nowhere where you stay at a private residence and nobody does anything for the visit, so nothing to do for the return
The choices for TM28 then seem to be: 1) go and say hello at a local police station every time you go anywhere. Together with a form and a copy of the poster in Thai explaing WTF you're doing 2) Ignore it and pay a fine which could be around THB 800, as part of your fees for the "privelege" of being here, in the event they take an interest
In the knowledge that your TM30 is all in order and they have your address in their systems anyway, so you didn't think you needed to. Particularly if your wife has done the TM30's online
AND Do the 90 days online too
SORTED
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Mosha
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Post by Mosha on Sept 13, 2019 12:39:32 GMT 7
What if you go on an overnight stop within your home province, to a friend's. Does the TM30 run around apply?
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Post by Fletchsmile on Sept 13, 2019 14:45:23 GMT 7
What if you go on an overnight stop within your home province, to a friend's. Does the TM30 run around apply? That's one I'd definitely stick in the don't bother category if just staying overnight, as well as likely being under 24 hours. But you might want to set the alarm on your watch
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Post by Fletchsmile on Sept 13, 2019 14:55:17 GMT 7
What if you go on an overnight stop within your home province, to a friend's. Does the TM30 run around apply? That's one I'd definitely stick in the don't bother category if just staying overnight, as well as likely being under 24 hours. But you might want to set the alarm on your watch Just to add:
For anyone visiting us from Bangkok, we are suggesting they climb over the wall next to the moobarn swimming pool and walk around a little every 23 hours. Being right on the border: our side of the wall is Samut Prakarn. The grounds on the other side are in Bangkok.
For the less athletic a few mins walk to our nearest 7-11 is another option as that's also in BKK.
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Post by Fletchsmile on Sept 18, 2019 13:50:22 GMT 7
How to Input Data in TM30 Notification System and then print out to show immigration (website version): extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/1) On the website version: Once you've logged in and input the data in the "TM30 Notification" part of the system there are 3 little icons in the top right of the screen: save icon (looks like an old floppy disk) = banterk - to save/record data cancel icon (2 docs and a cross) = yoklerk - to cancel exit icon (in red with a door and an arrow) = ork - to exit 2) Click the save icon. Your data looks like it has disappeared but it hasn't Make sure you remember the date you input the details or take a screen shot or print. Check in date is key for searching see below:3) Click the exit icon to exit the system 4) Log into the system again and do a search do see your data. To do this re-log-in there is a menu with two folder icons in Thai แจ้งรับคนต่างด้าวเข้าพัก ค้นหาและดูข้อมูล 5) Click on either to expand the menus On the first one you will see that it is for "Notification TM30" or "Change Password" It's the second one you want that is "Search TM30" . This one let's you search data. 6) Click on the sub-line where it says "Search TM30" 7) That takes you to a search screen showing the user name and address. Remember the check in date at step 2) Put in the check in a range of check in dates, eg 7 Sep 2019 to 14 Sep 2019 and (max 7 days range. Both beginning and end is needed) 8 ) Click on the magnifying glass/ brown icon just below which says search in Thai. There are 2 icons just below the date. Left is search. Right is a cancel. Click search/magnifying glass and it will show basic details: Name, passport ID, landing card no. sex, date in to stay, date (expected out) etc Do a print screen of this in landscape format and it can be shown to Immigration Cheers Fletch
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Sept 18, 2019 17:32:15 GMT 7
Question(s):
Historically I have filed a TM28 which leaves my wife out of it all. If I were to register on the TM30 online system, presumably I would be registering my wife as the reporting party, rather than myself? Can you envisage any issues switching from TM28 reporting in person, over to TM30 reporting online?
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Post by Fletchsmile on Sept 19, 2019 12:04:07 GMT 7
Question(s): Historically I have filed a TM28 which leaves my wife out of it all. If I were to register on the TM30 online system, presumably I would be registering my wife as the reporting party, rather than myself? Can you envisage any issues switching from TM28 reporting in person, over to TM30 reporting online?
Yes you'd be registering your wife online asssuming she's the owner of your house/home. The big advantage is you could do online instead of person. Same way you can do 90 days online, and avoid trips to immigration
Strictly speaking it's not either/or and not a switch. TM28 still needs doing regardless of TM30. It seems many immigration offices aren't really bothering about TM28 though and are focusing on TM30.
I don't forsee any large issues. The only thing that might possibly happen is that immigration gets funny if you haven't filed a TM28 as the alien.
What could happen though if you don't do a TM30, is that they could fine your wife for not doing the TM30. Just as they did rgs and myself.
So suggestion would be: do TM30 online by your wife. And do TM28 yourself. Next time you go into immigration, initially offer them only the TM30, and see what happens, and whether they ask for TM28
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Sept 19, 2019 13:01:03 GMT 7
Is it possible that no TM30 has ever been filed for me and that only TM28 reporting has been done (by me in person), it seems kinda odd that a TM28 can exist without there being an underlying TM30? I had no problems getting my visa renewed/extended in April, or getting a re-entry permit since I do have this much used TMXX (it doesn't say if it's TM28 or TM30) receipt in my passport and that seems to have been sufficient proof. Those things being true, why should I even bother filing a TM30 (on behalf of my wife), unless there's another point in time that I've yet to encounter when a TM30 is actually required. Sorry if this seems pedantic and I'm not trying to be difficult, it all just seems very disjointed and without purpose. Here I am having reported via TM28 yet Immi. seems to want or value the TM30 more but that requires the co-operation of the Thai property owner, what if they don't want to co-operate, they can hardly come down on me because I've fulfilled my obligations by completing the TM28.
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Post by Fletchsmile on Sept 19, 2019 15:48:35 GMT 7
Is it possible that no TM30 has ever been filed for me and that only TM28 reporting has been done (by me in person), it seems kinda odd that a TM28 can exist without there being an underlying TM30? I had no problems getting my visa renewed/extended in April, or getting a re-entry permit since I do have this much used TMXX (it doesn't say if it's TM28 or TM30) receipt in my passport and that seems to have been sufficient proof. Those things being true, why should I even bother filing a TM30 (on behalf of my wife), unless there's another point in time that I've yet to encounter when a TM30 is actually required. Sorry if this seems pedantic and I'm not trying to be difficult, it all just seems very disjointed and without purpose. Here I am having reported via TM28 yet Immi. seems to want or value the TM30 more but that requires the co-operation of the Thai property owner, what if they don't want to co-operate, they can hardly come down on me because I've fulfilled my obligations by completing the TM28. You're right the whole process if disjointed, to put in politely.
For us, now set up, we'll do the TM30 online, given it's so easy. For TM28 not quite made my mind up yet, and I guess it only becomes relevant next time I visit immigration - which will probably be next year for Visa extension. A lot can happen between now and then
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Sept 19, 2019 18:45:07 GMT 7
I found this explanation helpful: “No, we don’t hold foreigners responsible for filing the TM30. Foreigners just need to make sure that they fill in a TM28. The TM30 is the landlord’s job,” Phuket Immigration Deputy Chief Col Nareuwat Putthawiro said plainly on Wednesday (Aug 28). The TM30 is the form for landlords to report to Immigration within 24 hours of the arrival of any foreign tenants, as required under Section 38 of the Thailand Immigration Act of 1979. The TM28 form is for foreigners to report themselves to Immigration after staying away from their registered address for more than 24 hours, as required under Section 37 (c) of the same act. “The TM30 is the house owner’s responsibility, whether the home owner is a Thai or a foreigner,” Col Nareuwat said. If a landlord refuses to – or is unable to – comply by filing a TM30 to report the foreigner as staying, or returning to stay, at the foreigner’s registered address, that is not the foreigner’s responsibliity, Col Nareuwat explained. “All the foreigner has to do is submit a TM28. That’s all the foreigner is responsible for. If the foreigner is applying for an extension to stay, they need not worry about whether or not their landlord has reported them through a TM30 – it will not affect the foreigner’s application,” he added. “They will not be told to leave the Kingdom if their landlord has not filed a TM30 reporting them,” he assured. However, the requirement for foreigners to re-report themselves as staying at – or returning to – their registered address within 24 hours of their arrival by filing a TM28 remains in effect, Col Nareuwat told The Phuket News. Asked whether foreigners must submit a completed TM28 every time they return to their registered address, Col Nareuwat said, “Yes, they must do.” Col Nareuwat added that filing a TM28 remains separate from the 90-day reporting requirement, as completed by filing a TM47. “Yes, please also file a TM47 every 90 days as normal,” he said. Landlords who fail to report foreigners staying on their property will be fined, Col Nareuwat said. “If the landlord ignores this (filing the TM30), they will be fined up to B2,000,” he assured. “The fine under Section 77 of the act is actually up to B10,000, but the higher fines are used only for hotels or guesthouses that willfully ignore the requirement. “A foreigner who has filed a TM28 will not be fined for the landlord failing to uphold their responsibility because the foreigner has informed us,” he repeated. “But if a landlord is intentionally slow or delays in filing a TM30, they will be charged by Immigration police,” he said. Extracted from and continued here: www.thephuketnews.com/right-on-time-%C2%A0phuket-immigration-explain-tm30-and-tm28-requirements-for-reporting-foreigners-72693.phpBut it still doesn't help explain how Immi. is going to fine the house owner if that person never goes to Immi. in the first place, and why would they! Perhaps Immi. will send out hit squads or similar, farcical really.
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Mosha
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Post by Mosha on Sept 19, 2019 18:48:21 GMT 7
Oh good news, apparently the TM6 is no longer needed because they are running out of storage. TM6 isn't the problem, takes 5 minutes to fill in.
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Sept 20, 2019 5:15:02 GMT 7
Oh good news, apparently the TM6 is no longer needed because they are running out of storage. TM6 isn't the problem, takes 5 minutes to fill in. TM6 and TM30 contain the same information, it seems they're replacing the 6 with the 30 because they couldn't manage the volume of TM6's or figure out what to do with them - plus people filling out the 6's could never be relied upon to tell the truth, now with the 30 there's the confirmation of a trustworthy Thai subject to confirm it's all true, what could possibly go wrong. So the solution is to change the place at which the data is collected, instead of filling out the form on a plane and leaving it at swampy, you now fill it out at Immi. and leave it there instead. Few people understand this is the difference between centralised form storage and distributed form storage, instead of having one huge paper mountain in Bangkok they've opted for a series of smaller paper mountains, spread around the country.....I'm telling ya, you've got to get up pretty early in the morning to get one over on these guys, they've got it nailed. But what about the valuable TAT data on the back of the 6, if the 6 is scrapped how will TAT know the income of all incoming tourists? I imagine the 30 being revised before long to include this data and the trustworthy local will be required to inspect the tourists bank account and pay slips. Could it be that eventually every incoming tourist must be shackled to a chaperone for the duration of their stay, there'd be long queues of chaperones snaking around outside passport control, waiting for their escort, that'd solve the problem and also reduce unemployment .....you heard it here first!
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rubl
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Post by rubl on Apr 9, 2021 7:57:04 GMT 7
UPDATE:
Yesterday at Immigration, MTT I did a 90-day reporting. It included a change of address as I had moved to another house a bit further up the street. I was asked for a copy of the TM30 which I didn't have.
Now my 90-day reporting receipt has written on it that I still have to show that TM30. Next time would be fine I was told.
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