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Post by rgs2001uk on Dec 2, 2019 20:52:16 GMT 7
PS, not mentioned, I dont know how much you have in the way of your home country, bank accounts etc, however you are in a unique situation, in that you are able to purchase cheaply pommie pesos, dollars or euros thanks to the exchange rate.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Dec 2, 2019 21:01:49 GMT 7
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Moobin
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Post by Moobin on Dec 2, 2019 21:23:02 GMT 7
PS, not mentioned, I dont know how much you have in the way of your home country, bank accounts etc, however you are in a unique situation, in that you are able to purchase cheaply pommie pesos, dollars or euros thanks to the exchange rate. I have no money at all in the UK. I have no accounts there.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Dec 2, 2019 21:53:44 GMT 7
PS, not mentioned, I dont know how much you have in the way of your home country, bank accounts etc, however you are in a unique situation, in that you are able to purchase cheaply pommie pesos, dollars or euros thanks to the exchange rate. I have no money at all in the UK. I have no accounts there. No problem, I get that, would it be safe to say, you are only interested in investing in Thailand, or are you up for offshore?
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Moobin
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Post by Moobin on Dec 3, 2019 17:40:43 GMT 7
I have no money at all in the UK. I have no accounts there. No problem, I get that, would it be safe to say, you are only interested in investing in Thailand, or are you up for offshore? I am also up for offshore. So far all all investments in overseas companies have been done via FIFs offered via BBL or UOB. If, however, it is possible to get with a fund manager that is taking less of a cut than the Thai ones, I certainly would seriously consider it. But I have absolutely no knowledge of such managers/companies and which would be the safest (not necessarily the cheapest).
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Post by rgs2001uk on Dec 4, 2019 20:20:06 GMT 7
No problem, I get that, would it be safe to say, you are only interested in investing in Thailand, or are you up for offshore? I am also up for offshore. So far all all investments in overseas companies have been done via FIFs offered via BBL or UOB. If, however, it is possible to get with a fund manager that is taking less of a cut than the Thai ones, I certainly would seriously consider it. But I have absolutely no knowledge of such managers/companies and which would be the safest (not necessarily the cheapest). Sorry cant help you on that, I am the same, hopefully others can point you in the right direction.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Dec 5, 2019 11:32:10 GMT 7
I am also up for offshore. Offshore brokers either don't offer funds, or offer a very limited range. (You won't find anywhere the very broad range available to UK residents.) Perhaps the best out there is Internaxx. They offer 600 funds which you can see at the following link/ www.internaxx.com/iframe/fund-selectorOf course, you'd need to convert THB into EUR, USD or GBP to buy these funds, and then convert back when you sell them. As I've intimated before, I think, given your circumstances, this probably isn't worth the hassle. An alternative to such funds is investment trusts (technically a kind of fund, but I'll gloss over that, and some details in the following text). They are traded on the London Stock Exchange. Trusts invest in a range of companies, just like a fund. You could, if you wanted, open an account in Thailand with someone like Philips (POEMS). This would give you access to the London Stock Exchange (where you could also buy ETFs). Most of the savvy investors who post here are keen investment trust investors. However, there is quite a bit of learning that needs to be undertaken before investing. You may care to read up on investment trusts. If you decide that's a route you'd like to go down, you probably can get any questions answered here.
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Moobin
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Post by Moobin on Dec 6, 2019 11:17:20 GMT 7
Thank you both for your input so far.
I am certainly interested in investment trusts, but like you say, I need to do quite a bit of research first.
I note that it may not be worth the hassle of using an offshore broker, seeing as I live and work in Thailand, and will continue to live here upon retirement.
Would either of you recommend investing in say 5 to 8 key funds as opposed to say smaller investments in as many as 20 different funds. I'll be selling out my LTFs over the next few years and am not sure whether to re-invest in funds I am already holding or diversify even more.
PS Unfortunately, I am not a savvy investor, but willing to learn.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Dec 6, 2019 11:49:52 GMT 7
Would either of you recommend investing in say 5 to 8 key funds as opposed to say smaller investments in as many as 20 different funds. There are three factors to consider here. The first is how much time you have to put into monitoring the funds. The second is which asset classes you wish to cover. Looking at asset classes, the ones that I consider relevant for myself are: Thai equities, broader Asian equities, European equities (including UK), Thai commercial property, global Infrastructure, inflation-linked bonds. That would suggest a minimum of six funds. There may be a temptation to buy multiple funds for each asset class, but that just increases the chances of buying a dud fund. However, if one wants to introduce a tilt in the investment, for example, towards small cap equities, one might want to buy a small cap fund and a large cap (or all cap) fund, and put, say, 1/3 in the former, 2/3 in the latter. That takes the number up to 9. The final factor is that the more funds you hold, the more index-like the performance you'll get, so throwing away the benefits of active fund management. In that case, you might as well just buy low cost index trackers. So, in short, I think 20 different funds is too many, and 9-12 is about right, for most people.
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Moobin
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Post by Moobin on Dec 6, 2019 14:05:42 GMT 7
Would either of you recommend investing in say 5 to 8 key funds as opposed to say smaller investments in as many as 20 different funds. There are three factors to consider here. The first is how much time you have to put into monitoring the funds. The second is which asset classes you wish to cover. Looking at asset classes, the ones that I consider relevant for myself are: Thai equities, broader Asian equities, European equities (including UK), Thai commercial property, global Infrastructure, inflation-linked bonds. That would suggest a minimum of six funds. There may be a temptation to buy multiple funds for each asset class, but that just increases the chances of buying a dud fund. However, if one wants to introduce a tilt in the investment, for example, towards small cap equities, one might want to buy a small cap fund and a large cap (or all cap) fund, and put, say, 1/3 in the former, 2/3 in the latter. That takes the number up to 9. The final factor is that the more funds you hold, the more index-like the performance you'll get, so throwing away the benefits of active fund management. In that case, you might as well just buy low cost index trackers. So, in short, I think 20 different funds is too many, and 9-12 is about right, for most people. Thanks for the really quick response. I felt that 20 would be too many, but being a relative newbie, thought it best to check. Also, thanks for the pointers to the asset classes. I am in Thai, Asian and to a lesser extent European and US equities already. I have already had the experience of buying a dud fund (UGARS) on which I am down 16.46 percent. On the bright side, if there is one, I only invested 150k. I will sit on it a while longer, but eventually if it does not improve will probably sell out at a loss. I decided to have a go with this one because it was so different to the other UOB funds and 'supposedly' does not follow the ups and downs of the market (it certainly followed the down of something).
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Post by rgs2001uk on Dec 6, 2019 15:03:48 GMT 7
There are three factors to consider here. The first is how much time you have to put into monitoring the funds. The second is which asset classes you wish to cover. Looking at asset classes, the ones that I consider relevant for myself are: Thai equities, broader Asian equities, European equities (including UK), Thai commercial property, global Infrastructure, inflation-linked bonds. That would suggest a minimum of six funds. There may be a temptation to buy multiple funds for each asset class, but that just increases the chances of buying a dud fund. However, if one wants to introduce a tilt in the investment, for example, towards small cap equities, one might want to buy a small cap fund and a large cap (or all cap) fund, and put, say, 1/3 in the former, 2/3 in the latter. That takes the number up to 9. The final factor is that the more funds you hold, the more index-like the performance you'll get, so throwing away the benefits of active fund management. In that case, you might as well just buy low cost index trackers. So, in short, I think 20 different funds is too many, and 9-12 is about right, for most people. Thanks for the really quick response. I felt that 20 would be too many, but being a relative newbie, thought it best to check. Also, thanks for the pointers to the asset classes. I am in Thai, Asian and to a lesser extent European and US equities already. I have already had the experience of buying a dud fund (UGARS) on which I am down 16.46 percent. On the bright side, if there is one, I only invested 150k. I will sit on it a while longer, but eventually if it does not improve will probably sell out at a loss. I decided to have a go with this one because it was so different to the other UOB funds and 'supposedly' does not follow the ups and downs of the market (it certainly followed the down of something). Is it fair to say you are probably Asian heavy? That’s ok when Asian markets are on the up, but I wouldn’t want to be top heavy in them. I would be looking for exposure to US, UK and European markets. Not all markets will behave the same way all the time, it’s a balancing act, when ones up the other may be down, a bit like spreading the risk. Others may talk about Emerging markets, others consider Asia to be an emerging market, for Asia, some don’t want exposure to Japan. As a starting point, I would be looking at 5 funds, US, UK, Europe, Asian and Global, the next problems is the % you allocate to each fund.
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Moobin
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Post by Moobin on Dec 6, 2019 16:07:47 GMT 7
Thanks for the really quick response. I felt that 20 would be too many, but being a relative newbie, thought it best to check. Also, thanks for the pointers to the asset classes. I am in Thai, Asian and to a lesser extent European and US equities already. I have already had the experience of buying a dud fund (UGARS) on which I am down 16.46 percent. On the bright side, if there is one, I only invested 150k. I will sit on it a while longer, but eventually if it does not improve will probably sell out at a loss. I decided to have a go with this one because it was so different to the other UOB funds and 'supposedly' does not follow the ups and downs of the market (it certainly followed the down of something). Is it fair to say you are probably Asian heavy? That’s ok when Asian markets are on the up, but I wouldn’t want to be top heavy in them. I would be looking for exposure to US, UK and European markets. Not all markets will behave the same way all the time, it’s a balancing act, when ones up the other may be down, a bit like spreading the risk. Others may talk about Emerging markets, others consider Asia to be an emerging market, for Asia, some don’t want exposure to Japan. As a starting point, I would be looking at 5 funds, US, UK, Europe, Asian and Global, the next problems is the % you allocate to each fund. As a quick breakdown, these are my current allocations: Thailand 5.78 mil spread across 7 funds including 3 LTFs) Asia 0.5 US-Europe 1.98 (healthcare and innotech) Property (Thailand + foreign) 0.83 Misc 0.5 (UROCK) Provident Fund 5.73 If I disregard the provident fund, the breakdown would be: Thailand 60% Asia 5% US-Europe 21% Property 9% Misc 5% I am currently in 17 different funds including LTFs but am looking to pare that down and create more focus.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Dec 9, 2019 20:59:39 GMT 7
^^^ if I were you, I would carry on as normal with LTFs.
I would educate myself on alternatives, both in and out of Thailand, eg, Investment and Unit Trusts.
Decide if they are for you or not.
If for you contact as mentioned above Philips and see if available.
Take as long as required to get yourself up to speed, any questions feel free to ask.
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Dec 10, 2019 6:07:05 GMT 7
There are three factors to consider here. The first is how much time you have to put into monitoring the funds. The second is which asset classes you wish to cover. Looking at asset classes, the ones that I consider relevant for myself are: Thai equities, broader Asian equities, European equities (including UK), Thai commercial property, global Infrastructure, inflation-linked bonds. That would suggest a minimum of six funds. There may be a temptation to buy multiple funds for each asset class, but that just increases the chances of buying a dud fund. However, if one wants to introduce a tilt in the investment, for example, towards small cap equities, one might want to buy a small cap fund and a large cap (or all cap) fund, and put, say, 1/3 in the former, 2/3 in the latter. That takes the number up to 9. The final factor is that the more funds you hold, the more index-like the performance you'll get, so throwing away the benefits of active fund management. In that case, you might as well just buy low cost index trackers. So, in short, I think 20 different funds is too many, and 9-12 is about right, for most people. Thanks for the really quick response. I felt that 20 would be too many, but being a relative newbie, thought it best to check. Also, thanks for the pointers to the asset classes. I am in Thai, Asian and to a lesser extent European and US equities already. I have already had the experience of buying a dud fund (UGARS) on which I am down 16.46 percent. On the bright side, if there is one, I only invested 150k. I will sit on it a while longer, but eventually if it does not improve will probably sell out at a loss. I decided to have a go with this one because it was so different to the other UOB funds and 'supposedly' does not follow the ups and downs of the market (it certainly followed the down of something). I've come up a steep learning curve with investing and it's taken a long time, probably two years to get to this point and I'm still fairly low down on the curve, even if there were times when I thought I understood a lot more. Here's some of the things I've learned, if it helps: Buy and hold - just because something dips is no reason to offload it, the same positive reasons you bought the product still exist today as when you first bought it, unless you didn't do your initial research properly that is USA Market - Buy an S&P tracker and be done with it, don't screw around trying to find fund managers who beat the market, odds are you wont. Diversification - go global, more than 20% in any one region is silly. 70/30 - 70% equities and 30% bonds is still a very viable and lower risk model, don't ignore bonds. Nostalgia - you've bought a great fund run by a great manager but there's another one that also appeals that you've read great things about, trouble is it's got the same footprint as the first fund....you want to buy both. Don't do it. Number of Funds (assuming 100k) - some say buy Vanguard and do it in a single fund, others say a maximum of three, I find 12 works well and lets me cover all the areas I want to cover with the products I want to engage with. Tweaking - a minor change here this week, a little change there next week, don't go there, review every month but don't touch, evaluate after twelve months. Reading Material - a goodly percentage of investment reading material is crap, sponsored or biased, I find you have to read lots to try and find common messages, looking for that one billion dollar hidden message that only you can appreciate is folly. Hot Tips - ignore all. Good luck
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Moobin
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Post by Moobin on Dec 10, 2019 10:30:33 GMT 7
Thanks for the additional input. All appreciated.
Chiangmai, I do tend to sit on funds and am definitely not switching regularly. I can accept the ups and downs of the funds I am holding for the most part, although there are a couple that I will divest or switch out of. So far the only fund I have sold out is the RMF and I am now re-investing that.
Interesting that rgs2001uk recommends sitting on the LTFs even though I can now switch a couple of them. I would have thought I could get higher returns from other funds.
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