Moobin
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Post by Moobin on Apr 9, 2022 16:47:05 GMT 7
Anyone changed their mind about investing in cryptocurrency? Ain't no such thing as "investing" in cryptocurrency - only "speculating". So, no. Anyone changed their mind about speculating in cryptocurrency?
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Apr 9, 2022 19:13:47 GMT 7
Ain't no such thing as "investing" in cryptocurrency - only "speculating". So, no. Anyone changed their mind about speculating in cryptocurrency? I can see me putting 5% into some type of crypto vehicle but I don't know what that might be. I doubt there's a low risk option but there may be a way to spread the risk.
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rubl
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Post by rubl on Apr 11, 2022 14:50:13 GMT 7
I think there are at least two types of crypto currencies now. One type backed by a real currency and one not.
The crypto currency backed by a real currency seems useful as electronic payment of smaller amount between individuals living in different countries. Not sure, but probably there are easier ways to accomplish this. The non-backed crypto currency I see as a speculation only. IMHO of course.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Apr 11, 2022 17:46:27 GMT 7
The crypto currency backed by a real currency seems useful as electronic payment of smaller amount between individuals living in different countries. These are so called "stablecoins". One such stablecoin is Tether. It was alleged that is is fully backed by Yankee Dollars. It wasn't, and Tether was fined $41 million for this. As things stand, there's no way of telling whether your stablecoins really are backed by real money (and will continue to be so in the future). As for usefulness for electronic payment, the technology is so slow and clunky that it won't ever be widely used for small amounts. Nobody wants to hang around whilst the blockchain works out whether it's OK for me to buy a pack of gum. And now that it's become pretty easy for the authorities to track cryptotransactions, that's taken away the primary reasons for crypto: facilitating drug dealing, laundering the proceeds of crime, and financing terrorism. Incidentally, "stable" isn't really that stable. Tether has swung between 92 cents and 108 cents.
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rubl
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Post by rubl on Apr 11, 2022 19:36:49 GMT 7
The crypto currency backed by a real currency seems useful as electronic payment of smaller amount between individuals living in different countries. These are so called "stablecoins". One such stablecoin is Tether. It was alleged that is is fully backed by Yankee Dollars. It wasn't, and Tether was fined $41 million for this. As things stand, there's no way of telling whether your stablecoins really are backed by real money (and will continue to be so in the future). As for usefulness for electronic payment, the technology is so slow and clunky that it won't ever be widely used for small amounts. Nobody wants to hang around whilst the blockchain works out whether it's OK for me to buy a pack of gum. And now that it's become pretty easy for the authorities to track cryptotransactions, that's taken away the primary reasons for crypto: facilitating drug dealing, laundering the proceeds of crime, and financing terrorism. Incidentally, "stable" isn't really that stable. Tether has swung between 92 cents and 108 cents. The ones back by Central Banks should be the most stable (as long as it's not the Zimbabwe Schilling or other interesting valuta). Also the most 'secure' (Call HelpDesk and before you can give your name they already say "Yes mr. ... we saw what you tried...). As for 'small payment' I was referring to International payments. BTW I'm really amused when I see people pay for their 35 Baht lunch scanning the shopkeeper's QR and after some more 'keyboard' handing show the mobile's screen and say 'you see?'
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Moobin
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Post by Moobin on Apr 11, 2022 20:59:21 GMT 7
The crypto currency backed by a real currency seems useful as electronic payment of smaller amount between individuals living in different countries. These are so called "stablecoins". One such stablecoin is Tether. It was alleged that is is fully backed by Yankee Dollars. It wasn't, and Tether was fined $41 million for this. As things stand, there's no way of telling whether your stablecoins really are backed by real money (and will continue to be so in the future). As for usefulness for electronic payment, the technology is so slow and clunky that it won't ever be widely used for small amounts. Nobody wants to hang around whilst the blockchain works out whether it's OK for me to buy a pack of gum. And now that it's become pretty easy for the authorities to track cryptotransactions, that's taken away the primary reasons for crypto: facilitating drug dealing, laundering the proceeds of crime, and financing terrorism. Incidentally, "stable" isn't really that stable. Tether has swung between 92 cents and 108 cents. All my crypto transactions have been completed in a few seconds. However, I totally agree with the comment that many (most?) crypto currencies are totally speculative and have no backing. A lot of ponzi type schemes. I'm only holding a few Etherium, and am testing the waters in a Defi project in which my holdings are down about 50% but I only started with US$5,500 so no big deal. I'm willing to spend to learn.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Apr 11, 2022 21:30:49 GMT 7
^^^ I don't use any cryptocurrency, so have no personal experience. However, reportedly "On the Bitcoin network, the average confirmation time for a BTC payment is about 10 minutes". coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/how-long-does-a-bitcoin-transaction-takeAs for "am testing the waters in a Defi project in which my holdings are down about 50% but I only started with US$5,500 so no big deal. I'm willing to spend to learn." Losing 50% of your money is an expensive lesson. Doesn't that tell you that what you should be learning is "walk (or possibly run) away from this snake oil"? Something I learnt many years ago (and I'm sure have mentioned before) is that just because an asset class exists, one doesn't need to invest in it. Indeed, some of the few times I've been badly burnt is when I've moved away from bog standard equities into commodity funds and hedge funds. (The other time was with Equitable Life when I saw my pension saving slashed to less than a quarter.) I very much doubt that your financial objectives (assuming they're realistic) couldn't be met by conventional asset classes, and probably with less risk of losing heavily.
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Apr 12, 2022 5:19:33 GMT 7
^^^ I don't use any cryptocurrency, so have no personal experience. However, reportedly "On the Bitcoin network, the average confirmation time for a BTC payment is about 10 minutes". coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/how-long-does-a-bitcoin-transaction-takeAs for "am testing the waters in a Defi project in which my holdings are down about 50% but I only started with US$5,500 so no big deal. I'm willing to spend to learn." Losing 50% of your money is an expensive lesson. Doesn't that tell you that what you should be learning is "walk (or possibly run) away from this snake oil"? Something I learnt many years ago (and I'm sure have mentioned before) is that just because an asset class exists, one doesn't need to invest in it. Indeed, some of the few times I've been badly burnt is when I've moved away from bog standard equities into commodity funds and hedge funds. (The other time was with Equitable Life when I saw my pension saving slashed to less than a quarter.) I very much doubt that your financial objectives (assuming they're realistic) couldn't be met by conventional asset classes, and probably with less risk of losing heavily. I agree with the last two sentences'. Although that was the way I viewed EM's when I first started out, why take an unnecessary risk when major markets exist. I now regard EM's as at least an equal partner in the asset allocation process hence views do change. And finally there's the fun aspect, not to be completely ignored.
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Moobin
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Post by Moobin on Apr 12, 2022 12:30:17 GMT 7
^^^ I don't use any cryptocurrency, so have no personal experience. However, reportedly "On the Bitcoin network, the average confirmation time for a BTC payment is about 10 minutes". coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/how-long-does-a-bitcoin-transaction-takeAs for "am testing the waters in a Defi project in which my holdings are down about 50% but I only started with US$5,500 so no big deal. I'm willing to spend to learn." Losing 50% of your money is an expensive lesson. Doesn't that tell you that what you should be learning is "walk (or possibly run) away from this snake oil"? Something I learnt many years ago (and I'm sure have mentioned before) is that just because an asset class exists, one doesn't need to invest in it. Indeed, some of the few times I've been badly burnt is when I've moved away from bog standard equities into commodity funds and hedge funds. (The other time was with Equitable Life when I saw my pension saving slashed to less than a quarter.) I very much doubt that your financial objectives (assuming they're realistic) couldn't be met by conventional asset classes, and probably with less risk of losing heavily. Have you ever invested in a stock or mutual fund the value of which dropped significantly shortly after your initial investment? If so, did you sell at a loss or ride it out? It seems to be par for the course for me that I invest in something only for it to drop. But it is very rare that I immediately cash out. As to the Defi scheme I am in, I believe there is a chance that it could work so will continue with it. Like I said, it is a learning experience and if it works I will have a bit more pocket money. FYI I am following the philosophy of "never invest more than you can afford to lose" when it comes to crypto. As to different asset classes, I am only down by about USD20,000 on my China holdings (sarcasm alert). I'll just hold for the long term and perhaps sell when I break even but more likely continue holding. Most of my other holdings are doing okay though.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Apr 12, 2022 13:33:01 GMT 7
Have you ever invested in a stock or mutual fund the value of which dropped significantly shortly after your initial investment? Yes. However, there's a fundamental difference between stock valuations and crypto valuations. With a stock one can look at the current dividends, take a viewpoint about how the company is likely to grow, and make a (more or less informed) opinion about future cash flows. One can then discount those cashflows to today and so get a fairly rational idea of what a stock is actually worth. With crypto, it's only worth as much as the next sucker will pay for it. There is absolutely nothing fundamentally underpinning its price*. And if a cryptocurrency is no longer flavour du jour, and there is no next sucker around, that value can drop to zero. I'd add that with a mutual fund, once gets instant diversification, so should one stock tank, the overall impact upon the fund's value is pretty minimal. I don't believe crypto investors are investing in corresponding large baskets of different coins, so they are exposed to a very concentrated risk. I guess one could buy 100 different cryptocurrencies, but then would be almost guaranteeing failure, since only a handful can possibly survive in the longer term. * Excluding stablecoins here. They have different issues.
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rubl
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Post by rubl on Apr 14, 2022 18:52:16 GMT 7
Just saw a 'confidence inspiring' ad.
" Trezor @trezor Be confident about crypto.
Secure your savings in #Bitcoin with a Trezor Starter Pack - no experience needed!"
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Post by rgs2001uk on Apr 16, 2022 21:30:44 GMT 7
^^^ I don't use any cryptocurrency, so have no personal experience. However, reportedly "On the Bitcoin network, the average confirmation time for a BTC payment is about 10 minutes". coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/how-long-does-a-bitcoin-transaction-takeAs for "am testing the waters in a Defi project in which my holdings are down about 50% but I only started with US$5,500 so no big deal. I'm willing to spend to learn." Losing 50% of your money is an expensive lesson. Doesn't that tell you that what you should be learning is "walk (or possibly run) away from this snake oil"? Something I learnt many years ago (and I'm sure have mentioned before) is that just because an asset class exists, one doesn't need to invest in it. Indeed, some of the few times I've been badly burnt is when I've moved away from bog standard equities into commodity funds and hedge funds. (The other time was with Equitable Life when I saw my pension saving slashed to less than a quarter.) I very much doubt that your financial objectives (assuming they're realistic) couldn't be met by conventional asset classes, and probably with less risk of losing heavily. I agree with the last two sentences'. Although that was the way I viewed EM's when I first started out, why take an unnecessary risk when major markets exist. I now regard EM's as at least an equal partner in the asset allocation process hence views do change. And finally there's the fun aspect, not to be completely ignored. I liken it to, waking up in the morning and placing a bundle of fivers in a wet bucket, when you get home from work, throw the soggy fivers at the wall, when you wake up in the morning how many are still stuck to the wall? My problem with them all is, how do you measure performance, wheres the historical data for comparison purposes? And most worrying of all how do I get my money out.
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Apr 17, 2022 5:33:54 GMT 7
I agree with the last two sentences'. Although that was the way I viewed EM's when I first started out, why take an unnecessary risk when major markets exist. I now regard EM's as at least an equal partner in the asset allocation process hence views do change. And finally there's the fun aspect, not to be completely ignored. I liken it to, waking up in the morning and placing a bundle of fivers in a wet bucket, when you get home from work, throw the soggy fivers at the wall, when you wake up in the morning how many are still stuck to the wall? My problem with them all is, how do you measure performance, wheres the historical data for comparison purposes? And most worrying of all how do I get my money out. Past performance cannot be used as a guide for what may happen in the future. Performance measure.......today price minus purchase price = profit or loss, unconventional I know but it does work. As for getting your money out.....how's your conventional equities portfolio doing these days. A low blow I hear you say. Well yes, but just because somebody understands something less than they understand their current ways of investing, is no reason not to carefully give it a try, in measured amounts.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Apr 18, 2022 21:34:16 GMT 7
I liken it to, waking up in the morning and placing a bundle of fivers in a wet bucket, when you get home from work, throw the soggy fivers at the wall, when you wake up in the morning how many are still stuck to the wall? My problem with them all is, how do you measure performance, wheres the historical data for comparison purposes? And most worrying of all how do I get my money out. Past performance cannot be used as a guide for what may happen in the future. Performance measure.......today price minus purchase price = profit or loss, unconventional I know but it does work. As for getting your money out.....how's your conventional equities portfolio doing these days. A low blow I hear you say. Well yes, but just because somebody understands something less than they understand their current ways of investing, is no reason not to carefully give it a try, in measured amounts. 1, correct, but it can be used to measure performance against its peers. 2. its down about 20% from its peak, but still paying dividends, as for getting money out, a quick phone call sorts that out, how to do I cash in Bitcoin in Bkk? 3,I understand how hedge funds work and know I want eff all to do with them, I understand how ITs work and know there are certain sectors I wont touch with a bargepole. Define measured amounts, I read about 5% being invested, for some guys I know that could easily mean 50k pommie pesos and upwards, not the sort of money to be tossed about on nothing more than a comedy bet, best of luck to those who do, bigger balls than me, then again, I aint chasing money I am trying to protect it.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Apr 19, 2022 6:44:39 GMT 7
* Excluding stablecoins here. They have different issues. One issue is in the news today. One stable coin is Beanstalk beans. Each bean is supposed to have a value of US$ 1. Now they're worth $0.12 What happened? Person or persons unknown borrowed money to be able to buy lots of beans. They then owned sufficient to take control of the currency itself, and transferred out the currency's backing reserves ($180m) to themselves. It was all over in a matter of seconds. www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/apr/18/beanstalk-cryptocurrency-loses-182m-of-reserves-in-flash-attack
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