chiangmai
Crazy Mango Extraordinaire
Posts: 6,482
Likes: 5,572
|
Post by chiangmai on Jul 23, 2017 8:06:47 GMT 7
|
|
AyG
Crazy Mango Extraordinaire
Posts: 5,871
Likes: 4,555
|
Post by AyG on Jul 23, 2017 8:25:43 GMT 7
According to the MPs' Pension Scheme briefing paper, dated 27 May 2016 "Retirement pensions are payable from age 65 to those who are no longer MPs or office holders".
|
|
chiangmai
Crazy Mango Extraordinaire
Posts: 6,482
Likes: 5,572
|
Post by chiangmai on Jul 23, 2017 8:31:29 GMT 7
According to the MPs' Pension Scheme briefing paper, dated 27 May 2016 "Retirement pensions are payable from age 65 to those who are no longer MPs or office holders". Indeed, "from" age 65, not necessarily "at" age 65 for all MP's.
|
|
rubl
Crazy Mango Extraordinaire
The wondering type
Posts: 23,997
Likes: 9,332
|
Post by rubl on Jul 23, 2017 10:49:00 GMT 7
"with quite a few apparently without consultation and request of the patient" ??? Although all cases aare supposed to be done in consultation with and at the request of the patient it seems from several reports that many doctors are acting as they feel best and not taking the patient's instructions. I do not think this is only restricted to the Netherlands but it has been documented there since the laws were changed. It seems? Strictly speaking you talk about murder here. I think it's more a case of the issue having become more visible since the laws were changed in 2002. Before cases were 'less' documented but happened. In this I think only because of the public discussion people in general have become aware of euthanasia whereas before only those directly involved and affected and those wouldn't talk about it. In most countries euthanasia still just 'happens' as natural death since it would be a crime to assist. Of course, dying because you can't afford the medical bill is not considered euthanasia, just bad luck "Number of official cases of euthanasia rise 10% in the Netherlands The number of official cases of euthanasia in the Netherlands rose 10% last year to 6091 and euthanasia now accounts for 4% of total deaths, the regional monitoring boards said on Wednesday. " www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/04/number-of-official-cases-of-euthanasia-rise-10-in-the-netherlands/Of course, if you are to assume that 'this' happens' in other countries as well (deaths that is) other countries just don't see this in their statistics and therefore to some it doesn't happen in their country. This report is from 1994 and shows the problem of not having laws and regulations reflect a changing population, society and 'accepted' ideas. www.patientsrightscouncil.org/site/holland-background/ What has been documented is a 'withholding of further medical service', in most cases regarding cancer patients. This has happened with and without the patient's explicit consent. The changes in law has made cases more public and has given doctors clearer legal support to do or to don't. All cases of euthanasia and assisted suicide must be reported and 2015 shows 5516.
|
|
me
Crazy Mango Extraordinaire
Posts: 6,342
Likes: 3,980
|
Post by me on Jul 23, 2017 11:35:11 GMT 7
Although all cases aare supposed to be done in consultation with and at the request of the patient it seems from several reports that many doctors are acting as they feel best and not taking the patient's instructions. I do not think this is only restricted to the Netherlands but it has been documented there since the laws were changed. It seems? Strictly speaking you talk about murder here. I think it's more a case of the issue having become more visible since the laws were changed in 2002. Before cases were 'less' documented but happened. In this I think only because of the public discussion people in general have become aware of euthanasia whereas before only those directly involved and affected and those wouldn't talk about it. In most countries euthanasia still just 'happens' as natural death since it would be a crime to assist. Of course, dying because you can't afford the medical bill is not considered euthanasia, just bad luck "Number of official cases of euthanasia rise 10% in the Netherlands The number of official cases of euthanasia in the Netherlands rose 10% last year to 6091 and euthanasia now accounts for 4% of total deaths, the regional monitoring boards said on Wednesday. " www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/04/number-of-official-cases-of-euthanasia-rise-10-in-the-netherlands/Of course, if you are to assume that 'this' happens' in other countries as well (deaths that is) other countries just don't see this in their statistics and therefore to some it doesn't happen in their country. This report is from 1994 and shows the problem of not having laws and regulations reflect a changing population, society and 'accepted' ideas. www.patientsrightscouncil.org/site/holland-background/ What has been documented is a 'withholding of further medical service', in most cases regarding cancer patients. This has happened with and without the patient's explicit consent. The changes in law has made cases more public and has given doctors clearer legal support to do or to don't. All cases of euthanasia and assisted suicide must be reported and 2015 shows 5516. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3070710/by J Pereira - 2011 - Cited by 91 - Related articles In the Netherlands, euthanasia and pas were formally legalized in 2001 after ... In 17% of cases, the physicians proceeded without consent because they felt that ... Abstract · SAFEGUARDS AND ... · THE “SLIPPERY SLOPE ... · THE RESPONSE www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3070710/and yes we are talking about murder, especially in cases where part or all of the reasons are based on economic factors such as earning power of the patient and cost of maintanence.
|
|
rubl
Crazy Mango Extraordinaire
The wondering type
Posts: 23,997
Likes: 9,332
|
Post by rubl on Jul 23, 2017 13:15:34 GMT 7
It seems? Strictly speaking you talk about murder here. I think it's more a case of the issue having become more visible since the laws were changed in 2002. Before cases were 'less' documented but happened. In this I think only because of the public discussion people in general have become aware of euthanasia whereas before only those directly involved and affected and those wouldn't talk about it. In most countries euthanasia still just 'happens' as natural death since it would be a crime to assist. Of course, dying because you can't afford the medical bill is not considered euthanasia, just bad luck "Number of official cases of euthanasia rise 10% in the Netherlands The number of official cases of euthanasia in the Netherlands rose 10% last year to 6091 and euthanasia now accounts for 4% of total deaths, the regional monitoring boards said on Wednesday. " www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/04/number-of-official-cases-of-euthanasia-rise-10-in-the-netherlands/Of course, if you are to assume that 'this' happens' in other countries as well (deaths that is) other countries just don't see this in their statistics and therefore to some it doesn't happen in their country. This report is from 1994 and shows the problem of not having laws and regulations reflect a changing population, society and 'accepted' ideas. www.patientsrightscouncil.org/site/holland-background/ What has been documented is a 'withholding of further medical service', in most cases regarding cancer patients. This has happened with and without the patient's explicit consent. The changes in law has made cases more public and has given doctors clearer legal support to do or to don't. All cases of euthanasia and assisted suicide must be reported and 2015 shows 5516. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3070710/by J Pereira - 2011 - Cited by 91 - Related articles In the Netherlands, euthanasia and pas were formally legalized in 2001 after ... In 17% of cases, the physicians proceeded without consent because they felt that ... Abstract · SAFEGUARDS AND ... · THE “SLIPPERY SLOPE ... · THE RESPONSE www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3070710/and yes we are talking about murder, especially in cases where part or all of the reasons are based on economic factors such as earning power of the patient and cost of maintanence. The 17% relates to Belgium. For the Netherlands the article by Pereira says "Despite those safeguards, more than 500 people in the Netherlands are euthanized involuntarily every year. In 2005, a total of 2410 deaths by euthanasia or pas were reported, representing 1.7% of all deaths in the Netherlands. More than 560 people (0.4% of all deaths) were administered lethal substances without having given explicit consent" Note no criminal cases were lodged at courts. That means that some seem to agree that what was done was the best for all people involved. Interesting is "It must be noted that legalization of euthanasia or pas has not been required in other countries such as the United Kingdom, Australia, Ireland, France, and Spain, in which palliative care has developed more than it has in Belgium and the Netherlands." With palliative care meaning "Palliative care is an approach that improves the quality of life of patients and their families facing the problem associated with life-threatening illness, through the prevention and relief of suffering by means of early identification and impeccable assessment and treatment of pain and other problems, physical, psychosocial and spiritual." Now the question, do you recognise such in your home country? As for 'earning power and costs and social position' well that's the new Trump Care Plan. The bright future promised to us (or was that U.S.?)
|
|
me
Crazy Mango Extraordinaire
Posts: 6,342
Likes: 3,980
|
Post by me on Jul 23, 2017 13:25:02 GMT 7
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3070710/by J Pereira - 2011 - Cited by 91 - Related articles In the Netherlands, euthanasia and pas were formally legalized in 2001 after ... In 17% of cases, the physicians proceeded without consent because they felt that ... Abstract · SAFEGUARDS AND ... · THE “SLIPPERY SLOPE ... · THE RESPONSE www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3070710/and yes we are talking about murder, especially in cases where part or all of the reasons are based on economic factors such as earning power of the patient and cost of maintanence. The 17% relates to Belgium. For the Netherlands the article by Pereira says "Despite those safeguards, more than 500 people in the Netherlands are euthanized involuntarily every year. In 2005, a total of 2410 deaths by euthanasia or pas were reported, representing 1.7% of all deaths in the Netherlands. More than 560 people (0.4% of all deaths) were administered lethal substances without having given explicit consent" Note no criminal cases were lodged at courts. That means that some seem to agree that what was done was the best for all people involved. Interesting is "It must be noted that legalization of euthanasia or pas has not been required in other countries such as the United Kingdom, Australia, Ireland, France, and Spain, in which palliative care has developed more than it has in Belgium and the Netherlands." With palliative care meaning "Palliative care is an approach that improves the quality of life of patients and their families facing the problem associated with life-threatening illness, through the prevention and relief of suffering by means of early identification and impeccable assessment and treatment of pain and other problems, physical, psychosocial and spiritual." Now the question, do you recognise such in your home country? cheapest maybe. not necescarily the best for the one concerned. The fact there have been no charges is like the few convictions for US cops shooting people. Doctors will not testify...thus hard to prove death was caused by the drugs. Yes....I know it happens in Australia. Both the paliative care way and more direct measures especially where treatment costs would be high and someone decidesa for the person that his quality of life is not good enough even if the person is quite happy. I remember a paper just after the Netherlands introduced legal euthanasia and the figures then were higher....may have been catching up.
|
|
rubl
Crazy Mango Extraordinaire
The wondering type
Posts: 23,997
Likes: 9,332
|
Post by rubl on Jul 23, 2017 13:37:00 GMT 7
As with many 'issue' once you have a law things tend to bee more visible, registered, etc., etc. Regarding euthanasia we have an ongoing refinement of the law based on what people feel as injustice/justice filtered through a few decades to determine what's real and what's a fad.
If before the law only stated 'not allowed' that doesn't mean it didn't happen. It was 'done' and kept 'in the family'.
With the law opening with clearly defined checklist, registration and so, we are more clearly on the way the control this issue.
I'm in favour of allowing people the right to terminate their own lives, with certain safeguards. If that means they require help then the law should also cover who can legally help and in which cases, with what conditions, etc., etc. I'm afraid another tome in the set of lawbooks, but leaving it to 'common sense' wouldn't help.
|
|