dinga
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Post by dinga on Oct 11, 2018 20:12:37 GMT 7
Any thoughts about the merits - or otherwise - of investing in TFFIF?
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Post by rgs2001uk on Oct 11, 2018 23:39:07 GMT 7
As part of an LTF, why not, Not something I would be pumping my life’s savings into. Projections indicate 3 to 4% per year.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Oct 12, 2018 16:00:06 GMT 7
Low return subject to political manipulation. Significant risk (as with all Thai infrastructure projects). Possibility of lower returning assets being added to the fund later. What is there not to like?
Sadly it's only on offer to Thais.
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Post by Fletchsmile on Oct 12, 2018 17:08:46 GMT 7
It doesn't really appeal to me. The link below is to an article in BKK Post which highlights some of the reasons why: www.bangkokpost.com/business/finance/1537786/thailand-future-fund-ipo-set-for-october= Probably the biggest factor for me. At the end of the day you're still buying units/equity and 3%-4% just doesn't cut it. I'd prefer to stick money in certain fixed income funds with higher yields for capital stability or other equity funds for better potential returns Construction costs tend to overrun in Thailand. Also the potential for "inefficiencies", "commissions" being siphoned off on large scale projects makes them less attractive. Dare I suggest potential for corruption on large scale projects which we've seen often in the past Seems to have been a fair few glitches. have to wonder about transparency and governance Summary for me: For the level of returns of only 3% - 4% there are a lot of potential issues in different forms that make it something I'll pass on |
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Post by rgs2001uk on Oct 13, 2018 21:34:44 GMT 7
Low return subject to political manipulation. Significant risk (as with all Thai infrastructure projects). Possibility of lower returning assets being added to the fund later. What is there not to like? Sadly it's only on offer to Thais. สุดยอดฝรั่งรู้หมด |
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dinga
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Post by dinga on Oct 14, 2018 10:47:15 GMT 7
Thanks all.
FLETCH - you mentioned a preference for "certain fixed income funds with higher yields for capital
stability or other equity funds for better potential returns.
Appreciate some more details on these (my preference is THB denominated ones)
Tks & BRs
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Oct 14, 2018 12:41:10 GMT 7
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dinga
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Post by dinga on Oct 14, 2018 13:17:01 GMT 7
Tks - the YTD and 1Yr returns ain't especially attractive!
BRs
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Oct 14, 2018 13:29:31 GMT 7
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dinga
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Post by dinga on Oct 18, 2018 16:28:15 GMT 7
Thanks AyG - was holding off responding until after Fletch commented (he must be holidaying as he hasn't visited again...)
Yes - I've followed the discussions about the TMBPIPF and have this penciled in for investment. Appreciate your thoughts on why you're now moving to Phatra Prop?
PS I've abandoned the Thai Future Fund!
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Oct 18, 2018 17:28:48 GMT 7
Funnily enough, I tried to place an order for Phatra Prop today. It's closed to new investment, which is disappointing.
The closely related Phatra Prop-D is still open. However, it pays a taxable dividend, reducing performance by about 1/2% a year.
It has lower annual charges than TMBPIPF, resulting in slightly superior performance. The TER for TMBPIPF is 1.36%, and for PHATRA PROP-D is 0.92%. The initial charge for the TMBAM fund is 1%, and for the Phatra fund is 0.25%. Neither has a back end fee.
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Post by Fletchsmile on Oct 22, 2018 15:53:27 GMT 7
Thanks AyG - was holding off responding until after Fletch commented (he must be holidaying as he hasn't visited again...) Yes - I've followed the discussions about the TMBPIPF and have this penciled in for investment. Appreciate your thoughts on why you're now moving to Phatra Prop? PS I've abandoned the Thai Future Fund! Yes TMBPIPF is worth a look for its yield and diversification benefits to add once you have plenty Thai equities.
Worth considering also are multi-asset funds such as Krungsri Global Income (KF-INCOME) - which as a multi asset fund invests in equities, bonds, REITs etc. The Krungrsi one is a feeder into JPM Global Income. We hold this and it has consistently delivered about 4% income with a small amount of growth. This is of course a defensive fund for us. Obviously it doesn't achieve the returns of pure equity funds, because it is lower risk/volatility The Krungsri version we have used to have a THB 500k minimum thru the provider we originally used. I know other fund management houses offer feeders into JPM Global Income too, they may have lower entry levels.
Our version pays out its income via auto-redemption of units. Every month approx 4% x 1/12 of the holdings is switched into a Krungrsi Cash Fund, which we sell from time to time. By this method they avoid paying dividends, and the gain is classified as a capital gain so avoids WHT on any divs. This is why the minimum holding is high to make the numbers meaningful. i.e 500k x 4% X 1/12 is approx THB 1,666 a month "income" . If they go much below that it isn't worth the admin hassle and also could be below many purchase for the cash fund There is also an accumulation version called KF-CINCOME that doesn't auto-redeem and just rolls up gains
I'd prefer a decent multi asset fund like KF-(C)INCOME to the Thai Future infrastructure fund. greater transparency, slightly higher expected return, and likely lower volatility/ risk long term.
I don't hold any significant holdings in Thai bond funds these days. The don't offer much in the way of returns.
Outside Thailand I do hold a few bond funds that are worth a look:
Via UK: - Royal London Sterling Extra Yield - Sanlam Strategic Bond fund (recently renamed Man GLG)
Via Singapore - Pimco Income. (Note this is held in a wealth management account which I borrow against. So it is not held purely as a choice in itself, but part of a slightly leveraged portfolio) I think a few Thai fund management houses now have feeder funds into this Pimco fund
So any bond funds I don't really look to Thailand. Instead, within Thailand I would prefer adding a Property Fund like TMBPIPF or multi asset fund (which will contain bonds anyway), and get my bond exposure elsewhere
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Oct 22, 2018 16:39:50 GMT 7
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Post by Fletchsmile on Oct 23, 2018 10:43:37 GMT 7
or other equity funds for better potential returns. ... for Thai equities UOB Good Corporate Governance should very likely exceed the 3%-4% mentioned. As an LTF there are also the tax breaks.
5 year return to 30 Sep 2018, I'm sat on +50% historic return (despite a tough time recently for EMs and Thailand). 10 years +392%. those exclude any tax breaks
the fund is consistently in Top 10 of its Thai equities sector over the last few years, and has outperformed the index in most years
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Post by Fletchsmile on Oct 23, 2018 10:46:11 GMT 7
If you invest in RMFs TMBPIPF also has a non-dividend paying RMF version. As an RMF you also get the tax breaks on it. I hold that too.
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Jan 4, 2023 21:15:53 GMT 7
Jan 4, 2023 21:15:53 GMT 7
