chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Feb 23, 2019 15:45:02 GMT 7
I hold both and the reason I do so is because I was looking for geographic diversity of my equity investments, FS covers my need for US exposure whilst LSG contribute to my UK and Japan exposure, style of investing wasn't really a factor for me.
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Post by Fletchsmile on Feb 25, 2019 21:33:46 GMT 7
Struck me that if someone took the top3 from each of myself, AYG, Rgs and Chiangmai, that's not a bad start for a portfolio in itself: Lindsell Train Global Equity fund x2 - global equities Jupiter European fund - European equities Royal London Sterling Extra Yield Fund - UK fixed income Finsbury Growth & Income - UK equities Independent Investment Trust - Global Equities Pacific Assets - Asian equities Witan - Global equities Scottish Mortgage - Global Equities Monks - Global Equties Fundsmith - Global Equities Baillie Gifford - Global Equities Perhaps a bit heavy on "global equities" but we can blame rgs and Chiangmai for that as each picked 3
There's quite a few differences though to be honest in what gets classed as global equities in these.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Feb 26, 2019 6:56:24 GMT 7
Independent Investment Trust - Global Equities Whilst it's in the "global equities" category, 95.9% of its investments are in the UK. 3.4% are in the US and 0.7% in Ireland. Closer to UK, really.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Feb 27, 2019 7:19:05 GMT 7
I think there's a large element of sour grapes from Terry Smith. HL reduced their Wealth 150 to a Wealth 50. Some funds inevitably got cut. He was one. On wonders how much Lindsell Train's owning over 11% of HL had upon the Wealth 50 decision. Seems like a conflict of interest to me.
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Post by Fletchsmile on Mar 4, 2019 18:12:47 GMT 7
It's curious how, of my 30 investments, 13 are investment trusts, and the top three I mentioned are all investment trusts, as are the other five investments I mentioned. I'm beginning to wonder whether there is greater "friction" for me with investment trusts, i.e. I'm quicker to sell a unit trust undergoing a period of poor performance than an investment trusts - perhaps because of the differential costs associated with so doing, and subsequently reinvesting. Also, with ETFs, I'm very much aware of costs, and will readily sell when a cheaper product comes along. For example, a year or two ago I happily sold my iShares TIPS and Index Linked Gilts ETFs and bought much cheaper Lyxor equivalents.
When I started out investing I started in shares.
I then started to become insterested investment trusts. A certain small "boutique" financial services company called Hargreaves Lansdown used to have a lot of research and info on investment trusts.
The biggest frustrations with investment trusts where the bid-offer spread, actually making transactions and the discount to NAV issue. I also learnt that more often than not buying a new IT was a poor strategy as so many just immediately went to a discount - though not all. Often better to just wait for the IPO, and buy a short while after once it was at a discount to NAV.
When unit trusts started becoming more popular I liked the idea of dealing based on NAV (OEICS without the bid-offer spread), actual dealing, and discounts. Just place a request to transact and done. I guess a lot of people felt the same as the unit trust/OEIC grew phenomenally in their share of the markets, whereas ITs seemd to get a little forgotten by many.
As it stands today: My preference is still for UTs/OEICs. Single pricing/non-bid offer spread. Zero initial charge (after discount), discounted AMC if you shop around. Always deal at NAV. So simple to just place a switch order, knowing you'll get a fair price on selling one fund and buying into a new fund. Done automatically with a few clicks
ITs still have a place - particularly in active management. Sometimes there are better choices of investments than UT. But a much more limited range. Poor on non-equity related products. I hate the actual dealing - sometimes ending up buying or selling a ridiculously small amount, or not being able to get a decent price at all. Or place a limit bid and see if you were lucky enough to get what you wanted. I guess the extra admin doesn't fit my nature. Also need more monitoring, and the added complexity of corporate actions like mergers/buy backs/takeovers/rights issues etc
If you're outside the UK and only have access to a broker, they can be easier to access than UTs though as any broker that gets access to LSE gets you ask to almost all the ITs.
As for ETFs, I think they've been very successfully marketed, but I haven't been overly impressed. People view them as cheap and easy to transact, equating them to index tackers (which not all of them are). Well marketed as it will often be cheaper to buy an index tracker OEIC/UT with no initial charge/bid-offer, no transaction cost, and often discounted annual charges not much different to ETFs. Still sometimes at the whims of the market on liquidity.
UTs/OEICs are so much easier, and when total costs, spreads and dicsounts taken into account all-in costs can also often be cheaper - just that ETFs have some powerful marketing behind them as to being cheapest.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Mar 5, 2019 8:39:03 GMT 7
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Mar 6, 2019 14:51:17 GMT 7
One of the things that makes me feel uncomfortable about Lindsell Train is the investment in the likes of Celtic, Juventus and the WWE. Indeed, they now have a very substantial chunk of Celtic shares. ( www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3955822/london-investment-firm-lindsell-train-has-increased-its-stake-in-celtic/ ) Is it just I (who has absolutely no interest in sports whatsoever), or do others feel uncomfortable with these sorts of somewhat unconventional investments? My gut feel is that the fund managers are simply investing other people's money (perhaps somewhat emotionally) in teams they support.
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Post by Fletchsmile on Mar 6, 2019 16:26:45 GMT 7
One of the things that makes me feel uncomfortable about Lindsell Train is the investment in the likes of Celtic, Juventus and the WWE. Indeed, they now have a very substantial chunk of Celtic shares. ( www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3955822/london-investment-firm-lindsell-train-has-increased-its-stake-in-celtic/ ) Is it just I (who has absolutely no interest in sports whatsoever), or do others feel uncomfortable with these sorts of somewhat unconventional investments? My gut feel is that the fund managers are simply investing other people's money (perhaps somewhat emotionally) in teams they support. Just think of it as diversification
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Mar 6, 2019 16:58:34 GMT 7
One of the things that makes me feel uncomfortable about Lindsell Train is the investment in the likes of Celtic, Juventus and the WWE. Indeed, they now have a very substantial chunk of Celtic shares. ( www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3955822/london-investment-firm-lindsell-train-has-increased-its-stake-in-celtic/ ) Is it just I (who has absolutely no interest in sports whatsoever), or do others feel uncomfortable with these sorts of somewhat unconventional investments? My gut feel is that the fund managers are simply investing other people's money (perhaps somewhat emotionally) in teams they support. They're businesses and they have all the attributes of businesses, why not.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Mar 6, 2019 17:45:47 GMT 7
They're businesses and they have all the attributes of businesses, why not. There has been a history of football clubs offering shares to fans to refinance their businesses. They have been sold based upon fan loyalty, rather than rationality. The shares have often been vastly overvalued and subsequently performed dreadfully. That's why not.
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Mar 6, 2019 18:04:30 GMT 7
They're businesses and they have all the attributes of businesses, why not. There has been a history of football clubs offering shares to fans to refinance their businesses. They have been sold based upon fan loyalty, rather than rationality. The shares have often been vastly overvalued and subsequently performed dreadfully. That's why not. At the risk of provoking your terseness any further......have any of them ever done well?.
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Mar 6, 2019 18:25:57 GMT 7
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Mar 6, 2019 20:06:13 GMT 7
And yet "Case and point is the experiences of Italian club Roma. "... its valuation has plunged from €3.47 a share from when the club floated in May 2000 to 51 cents."
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Mar 6, 2019 20:14:52 GMT 7
And yet "Case and point is the experiences of Italian club Roma. "... its valuation has plunged from €3.47 a share from when the club floated in May 2000 to 51 cents." Like many funds, over time some seem to prosper whilst others fade away into losses, there are winners and losers in both groups. So once again, why not football clubs as an investment, if we can have traditional investments funds, debt, property, commodities, options, futures, wine, junk and whatever else, why not football clubs.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Mar 6, 2019 21:42:28 GMT 7
So once again, why not football clubs as an investment, if we can have traditional investments funds, debt, property, commodities, options, futures, wine, junk and whatever else, why not football clubs. I'm sorry if my point wasn't clear, but I feel that investment in football clubs is often driven by emotion, rather than logic. My concern is that Lindsell Train is similarly driven by emotion. More broadly, football clubs spend ludicrous amounts of money recruiting people to kick their pig bladders around a field. How can a single employee really be worth so many millions a year? See www.investopedia.com/managing-wealth/5-highestpaid-soccer-players/ for some further details. The economics simply (for me) don't add up.
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