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Post by rgs2001uk on Jan 8, 2020 20:15:21 GMT 7
Lucky you, pity the poor bastid that had to endure his drivel on the flight over here and back. I dont know what it is about this country and Walts, what attracts them here? It's far enough away from Blackpool to be unusual and exotic and the chances of bumping into anyone they know are near zero. Add to that the general population doesn't understand or care about the things they have to say and it's a perfect Mitty breeding ground. I met a BA baggage handler in DM years ago who was bigging it up about living in Thailand and being fluent in Thai, every other utterance was koh jai mai. Turns out he was really just plying the ID 90 discount ticket game and visiting several times a year, he'd never been outside Pattaya and only ever took a Thai Airways limo, beyond sad., they walk among us, you would be amazed at how many of them there are.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Jan 8, 2020 22:43:26 GMT 7
Lucky you, pity the poor bastid that had to endure his drivel on the flight over here and back. I dont know what it is about this country and Walts, what attracts them here? It's far enough away from Blackpool to be unusual and exotic and the chances of bumping into anyone they know are near zero. Add to that the general population doesn't understand or care about the things they have to say and it's a perfect Mitty breeding ground. I met a BA baggage handler in DM years ago who was bigging it up about living in Thailand and being fluent in Thai, every other utterance was koh jai mai. Turns out he was really just plying the ID 90 discount ticket game and visiting several times a year, he'd never been outside Pattaya and only ever took a Thai Airways limo, beyond sad. Yet another refugee, relocated from sunny up country isaan, 'Closed now but could've been good apart from Plah been fed a load of Thai bullshit.' Now happily relocated to Bishop Auckland (wherever tf that is, ha ha ha) on the 13th of last month. Nowt wrong with Blackpool, can still get a decent pint and decent scran., douben bonus, peace and quiet from the mrs, she can play bingo all day long. Triple bouns, I still get company rates and discounts on the hotels.
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Jan 9, 2020 8:27:18 GMT 7
It's far enough away from Blackpool to be unusual and exotic and the chances of bumping into anyone they know are near zero. Add to that the general population doesn't understand or care about the things they have to say and it's a perfect Mitty breeding ground. I met a BA baggage handler in DM years ago who was bigging it up about living in Thailand and being fluent in Thai, every other utterance was koh jai mai. Turns out he was really just plying the ID 90 discount ticket game and visiting several times a year, he'd never been outside Pattaya and only ever took a Thai Airways limo, beyond sad. Yet another refugee, relocated from sunny up country isaan, 'Closed now but could've been good apart from Plah been fed a load of Thai bullshit.' Now happily relocated to Bishop Auckland (wherever tf that is, ha ha ha) on the 13th of last month. Nowt wrong with Blackpool, can still get a decent pint and decent scran., douben bonus, peace and quiet from the mrs, she can play bingo all day long. Triple bouns, I still get company rates and discounts on the hotels. Now you go too far, you've crossed a red line....nowt wrong with Blackpool, I expect you think there's nowt wrong with Morecambe either! Have you been to either place recently, they make Pattaya look like Cote d'Azur, granted, the arse end of Marseille and not Nice or Cannes.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Jan 9, 2020 20:19:33 GMT 7
^^^^ CM, you have left me bemused and bewildered, are things really that bad, what went wrong?
Looks like it will be the East coast then, Bridlington or Skeggy, decisions decisions.
I take it York is still worth a visit?
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Jan 10, 2020 4:49:56 GMT 7
^^^^ CM, you have left me bemused and bewildered, are things really that bad, what went wrong? Looks like it will be the East coast then, Bridlington or Skeggy, decisions decisions. I take it York is still worth a visit? If your memories of traditional seaside towns such as Bridlington or Morecambe are more than thirty years old, don't ever go back and try to recapture them in person, you'll end up in tears, honestly! Those towns went into decline when Brits discovered overseas package tours and realised they could fly to Spain and stay for a week for what it costs to holiday in Brid. First to go was all the big houses, the Edwardian and Victorian guest houses were all converted into flats. Next off was the high street as all the named stores moved out, long before internet shopping hit home. Combine those things with zero investment over the years and what remains is a shell of the places we probably both grew up with, sad, depressing gypsy owned amusement arcades, zero tourists, Pound shops and charity shops everywhere and most people on benefits of some kind, drug abuse is endemic. Jaywick Sands is in the lead, the worst town in the UK, the UK's benefits capital. I thought you would have known those things although I was shocked a few years ago when I went to visit, you must have been overseas a very long time.
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Post by stripedowl on Jan 10, 2020 10:39:55 GMT 7
This thread has taken some unexpected turns 😅
Thanks for the feedback, not quite sure how to continue with this now. No easy answer that's for sure!
Some info:
1) I'm from Finland. But have been living abroad for a long time and wouldn't go back to Finland unless circumstances (family events?) force me to.
2) I have no idea in which country i would like to retire, would like to leave that open.
3) I love Thailand but after having lived here quite some time I'm not sure how much more i'll want to stay here, also as children get older i would like them to go to school in Europe.
4) I have about 5 million bath in savings, mostly on a savings account in Thailand (1% interest 😂) , a little money in Europe too: about 20,000 euro or so
5) I manage 2 (small) spa / hotels, 1 in Thailand and 1 in Italy (don't own them, not fully anyway, only small part) and i receive income from both
6) I could put aside 100,000 THB or equivalent in euro for savings, partly for retirement partly for education children
7) Due to education of children i will spend much more (most) time in Italy from now on
8) No idea where i'd want to go to in a couple of years i like to keep my options open, but probably staying in Europe not too far from parents and brothers.
Some questions:
1) Does it make sense to keep savings in thailand even if it's not too likely that i will spend big amounts of time in thailand in the future (maybe a couple of months a year only)
2) Due to both organizations i can choose to receive my salary mainly in Thailand or mainly in Italy - needless to say that taxes are a concern in italy. What should i take into consideration when deciding how much to get payed in Thailand and how much in Italy?
3) I'm considering setting up a separate little management company for myself and my partner in Italy so the spa there can pay our company a service fee rather than a salary to avoid paying such high taxes on income - is that a good idea? What would the pros and cons be here?
4) I understand that financial advisors do not seem to be a good option, especially in Thailand. What would the best option to invest these savings and the income i have available for setting aside?
Sorry, i know that's a lot to ask 🤯 but there seem to be some very skilled and experienced people on this forum! And most of my own experience is in hospitality / operations / program development - never had a knack for finance but starting to work on it!
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Jan 10, 2020 12:33:39 GMT 7
Ha! I thought you'd flown off for good. You don't mention how old your children are, but if you're going to need the money for their education within 5 years, keep it as cash. Also keep, maybe 3 months of living expenses in cash as an emergency fund. Beyond that, you should (in my opinion) be invested. (5 million in cash sounds like an awful lot, and it's losing value each year thanks to inflation.) Now to address your questions: (1) It doesn't make sense keeping a lot of cash in Thailand (presumably in baht). You're vulnerable to the THB/EUR exchange rate. Admittedly, you've done well out of that over the last year or so as the baht has strengthened. However, that may well reverse. (2) Considerations should be (a) total value of salary, (b) taxes, (c) cost of foreign exchange in taking cash to Europe (and feasibility thereof - Thailand can be tricky to get money out of). (3) Check the tax on dividends if you go down the management company route. (4) There's no one answer to that. Tax breaks in Thailand can be attractive, making investment here a good idea if you pay income tax. However, you're restricted (AFAIK) to investing in Thai companies. Given the recent dire performance of the Thai stock market and little prospect for improvement, I'm not sure that those tax breaks are worth it. I would suggest, however, that you open a brokerage account in Europe and invest there. The very simplest investment would be to put it all into iShares Core MSCI World UCITS ETF USD (Acc) (EUR) (EUNL on Deutsche Boerse, SWDA on Borsa Italiana). That will give you average market performance (which is better than most people get). I wrote a little about the logic of that at bigmango.boards.net/thread/14884/lindsell-train?page=4&scrollTo=176834 One can get more complex (a lot more complex) if one's interested in investment. However, that often doesn't amount to superior returns.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Jan 10, 2020 20:24:26 GMT 7
^^^^ CM, you have left me bemused and bewildered, are things really that bad, what went wrong? Looks like it will be the East coast then, Bridlington or Skeggy, decisions decisions. I take it York is still worth a visit? If your memories of traditional seaside towns such as Bridlington or Morecambe are more than thirty years old, don't ever go back and try to recapture them in person, you'll end up in tears, honestly! Those towns went into decline when Brits discovered overseas package tours and realised they could fly to Spain and stay for a week for what it costs to holiday in Brid. First to go was all the big houses, the Edwardian and Victorian guest houses were all converted into flats. Next off was the high street as all the named stores moved out, long before internet shopping hit home. Combine those things with zero investment over the years and what remains is a shell of the places we probably both grew up with, sad, depressing gypsy owned amusement arcades, zero tourists, Pound shops and charity shops everywhere and most people on benefits of some kind, drug abuse is endemic. Jaywick Sands is in the lead, the worst town in the UK, the UK's benefits capital. I thought you would have known those things although I was shocked a few years ago when I went to visit, you must have been overseas a very long time. Good lord man, you make it sound like something from a Dickens novel, the simple things in life, a walk along the prom, an ice cream at the far end, a walk back, half a dozen pints of proper ale, then a nosebag of fish n chips. Correct left jolly old blighty years ago.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Jan 10, 2020 20:40:39 GMT 7
This thread has taken some unexpected turns 😅Thanks for the feedback, not quite sure how to continue with this now. No easy answer that's for sure! Some info: 1) I'm from Finland. But have been living abroad for a long time and wouldn't go back to Finland unless circumstances (family events?) force me to. 2) I have no idea in which country i would like to retire, would like to leave that open. 3) I love Thailand but after having lived here quite some time I'm not sure how much more i'll want to stay here, also as children get older i would like them to go to school in Europe. 4) I have about 5 million bath in savings, mostly on a savings account in Thailand (1% interest 😂) , a little money in Europe too: about 20,000 euro or so 5) I manage 2 (small) spa / hotels, 1 in Thailand and 1 in Italy (don't own them, not fully anyway, only small part) and i receive income from both 6) I could put aside 100,000 THB or equivalent in euro for savings, partly for retirement partly for education children 7) Due to education of children i will spend much more (most) time in Italy from now on 8) No idea where i'd want to go to in a couple of years i like to keep my options open, but probably staying in Europe not too far from parents and brothers. Some questions: 1) Does it make sense to keep savings in thailand even if it's not too likely that i will spend big amounts of time in thailand in the future (maybe a couple of months a year only) 2) Due to both organizations i can choose to receive my salary mainly in Thailand or mainly in Italy - needless to say that taxes are a concern in italy. What should i take into consideration when deciding how much to get payed in Thailand and how much in Italy? 3) I'm considering setting up a separate little management company for myself and my partner in Italy so the spa there can pay our company a service fee rather than a salary to avoid paying such high taxes on income - is that a good idea? What would the pros and cons be here? 4) I understand that financial advisors do not seem to be a good option, especially in Thailand. What would the best option to invest these savings and the income i have available for setting aside? Sorry, i know that's a lot to ask 🤯 but there seem to be some very skilled and experienced people on this forum! And most of my own experience is in hospitality / operations / program development - never had a knack for finance but starting to work on it! You will incur the wrath of the mods if you stay on topic, in fact, doing so may result in a warning or suspension. 5555. 1, same as me. 2, same as me. 3, same as me. 4, my advice, get your money out of Thailand ASAP, its finacial madness to keep that sort of money in an account paying such a derisory amount, it doesnt pass the logic test, its financial suicide by a thousand cuts. If invested elsewhere you could easily be picking up 5% or 250,000 baht per year. I would rather pay the taxes on 250k baht and reap the profits, that money in a Thai bank accountis, dead money. Take advantage of the strong baht rate and transfer back to where ever. 5, cant comment. 6, do so asap. 7, understood. 8, same same,its good to have options. Next set of questions. 1, no it does not. 2, taxes. 3, good idea, cant comment further without knowin tax liabilities. 4, avoid like the plauge all advisors in Thailand, Investigate the tax laws of Finland and Italy, then decide whats on offer and where to put your money to avoid taxes. I invest mainly in Investment Trusts, you probably know them as Mutual Funds. No need to apologise, any other questions feel free to ask, our skilled and knowledgable experts will be happy to advise. Take the advice with a pinch of salt.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Jan 10, 2020 22:06:58 GMT 7
^^^^ CM, you have left me bemused and bewildered, are things really that bad, what went wrong? Looks like it will be the East coast then, Bridlington or Skeggy, decisions decisions. I take it York is still worth a visit? If your memories of traditional seaside towns such as Bridlington or Morecambe are more than thirty years old, don't ever go back and try to recapture them in person, you'll end up in tears, honestly! Those towns went into decline when Brits discovered overseas package tours and realised they could fly to Spain and stay for a week for what it costs to holiday in Brid. First to go was all the big houses, the Edwardian and Victorian guest houses were all converted into flats. Next off was the high street as all the named stores moved out, long before internet shopping hit home. Combine those things with zero investment over the years and what remains is a shell of the places we probably both grew up with, sad, depressing gypsy owned amusement arcades, zero tourists, Pound shops and charity shops everywhere and most people on benefits of some kind, drug abuse is endemic. Jaywick Sands is in the lead, the worst town in the UK, the UK's benefits capital. I thought you would have known those things although I was shocked a few years ago when I went to visit, you must have been overseas a very long time. CM, last car I owned in the UK, best car I ever owned. Cavalier Sri. Rather than hire a car this summer, I am thinking about picking one of these up and recapturing my youth, can be picked up for less than 5 grand, or 200k baht, money well spent, buy it, drive it, thrash it, and give to a friend when I leave. Remember getting 125 out of one on the M6, the police were about to pull me over, thankfully some German in a Merc whizzed by me doing about 140, officer plod hot footed it to catch up with them, I caught up with them about 20 minutes later, merc pulled over, I slowed right down, officer plod pointed his finger at me and laughed, we both knew what was being said. This was about 2 in the morning, poor German guy probably couldnt understand. Was well p**sed off before I came here, had to sell my car, the import taxes would have raped me, some bastid got a bargain, never mind, the Thai tax man got nothing.
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Jan 11, 2020 5:55:28 GMT 7
If your memories of traditional seaside towns such as Bridlington or Morecambe are more than thirty years old, don't ever go back and try to recapture them in person, you'll end up in tears, honestly! Those towns went into decline when Brits discovered overseas package tours and realised they could fly to Spain and stay for a week for what it costs to holiday in Brid. First to go was all the big houses, the Edwardian and Victorian guest houses were all converted into flats. Next off was the high street as all the named stores moved out, long before internet shopping hit home. Combine those things with zero investment over the years and what remains is a shell of the places we probably both grew up with, sad, depressing gypsy owned amusement arcades, zero tourists, Pound shops and charity shops everywhere and most people on benefits of some kind, drug abuse is endemic. Jaywick Sands is in the lead, the worst town in the UK, the UK's benefits capital. I thought you would have known those things although I was shocked a few years ago when I went to visit, you must have been overseas a very long time. CM, last car I owned in the UK, best car I ever owned. Cavalier Sri. Rather than hire a car this summer, I am thinking about picking one of these up and recapturing my youth, can be picked up for less than 5 grand, or 200k baht, money well spent, buy it, drive it, thrash it, and give to a friend when I leave. Remember getting 125 out of one on the M6, the police were about to pull me over, thankfully some German in a Merc whizzed by me doing about 140, officer plod hot footed it to catch up with them, I caught up with them about 20 minutes later, merc pulled over, I slowed right down, officer plod pointed his finger at me and laughed, we both knew what was being said. This was about 2 in the morning, poor German guy probably couldnt understand. Was well p**sed off before I came here, had to sell my car, the import taxes would have raped me, some bastid got a bargain, never mind, the Thai tax man got nothing. A Vauxhall Cavalier SRI, for the love of dear god man you've been gone so long that I imagine your citizenship must have expired. You'll be in for real shock if you do manage to get back in. you've maybe heard that bell bottoms, flairs and kipper ties are no longer in style so best not to take any, but dishdasha's are popular! I'm not sure buying a cheap car and then giving it away at the end of the trip is a good idea, parking is the problem as are speed camera's. You can't find three spare metres of unmarked curb space anywhere and the rest of it will cost a small fortune to rent for a few hours...overnight parking requires a small loan at times. If I were you I'd get a rail pass and a bus pass then use taxi's to fill in the gaps, there's ticket pass discounts all over the place plus it's a great way to travel and you can get a beer on the train. Sadly though the breakfast of kippers on the intercity trains is long gone, they used to be an excellent start to the day.
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Post by eldivino on Jan 16, 2020 13:03:08 GMT 7
I guess I was in a similar situation like you (and partly still am). I was saving lots of cash on a low interest savings account (even less than the 1.5% you get here because at that time I was still in Europe) because I was trying to find time to read investment books and analyze stocks or funds so I could make the perfect investment. In hindsight, that costed me some years of returns.
I am generally wary about any financial advisors; apologies to all those who are professional and knowledgeable. I don’t feel comfortable letting someone else manage my money and paying him for it (and even when he doesn’t make returns). Again, apologies to all those who deserve their commissions because they’re doing a good job for their clients.
The best for me really was boring ETFs. It won’t give you double-digit returns in the long-run, but I can put my money their without having to think much or spend a lot of time, and it will grow 5-7%p.a. in the long-run. That’s the compromise I’m willing to make and it seems to work with my retirement savings plan. I won’t be able to afford a real estate empire when I’m old, but I’ll have enough money to live comfortably with the same lifestyle I have now. In the Long-run, I might build some small positions where I take a bit more risk and which require a bit more research and time, following a satellite-core-approach. The important thing is to be invested while I’m figuring things out, and for that ETF are the best thing for me.
The only downside is that I cannot do it out of Thailand because there are not low-cost brokers here where you can trade ETF. Interactive Brokers is an option, but their fee structure doesn’t work for me. I was able to keep an account with my broker at home, so every 6-12 months I am transferring a large sum back home to invest it in MSCI World etc. During the year, it stays on a 1.5% interest savings account. Not ideal, but the best setup I found for myself for now.
I see Degiro is available in Finland. Maybe open an account with them, transfer your savings back home, and invest it in an MSCI World (or similar) while you’re working on a more deliberate investment strategy. Keep an emergency fund here (depending on x months of expenses or so). Check whether there are any tax implications in Finland. Get a good book on investing long-term in passively managed index funds (or just buy MSCI World).
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Post by rgs2001uk on Jan 16, 2020 20:32:50 GMT 7
^^^^ nothing wrong with your approach, stick to what you know and understand, the rest will come later, take advantage of the exchange rates.
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Post by stripedowl on Jan 24, 2020 16:29:23 GMT 7
Thanks for the advice, I've been looking at best ways to transfer money from Thailand back to Europe, which doesn't seem to be straightforward, but i figured it out with my bank and ready to transfer.
Someone recommended DeGiro, which does seem to be available to me. Is that a good and reliable low cost broker in Europe?
Also, and i know there's many opinions on this, but all things considered and taking into account the state of the economy now, would it be wise to invest the whole sum that i'd like to set aside for (much) later in low cost index funds NOW, or better to gradually transfer, for example every 3 months or so buy more of the funds?
Then the last question: would you keep it simple for the time being invest all of it in 1 fund like MSCI World or would you diversify (even despite having very little knowledge and experience) into a couple of different ones, and if so what would be a good guideline for that?
As always, a bow of gratitude for all expert advise!
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Jan 24, 2020 17:22:56 GMT 7
DEGIRO is a reliable, low cost broker. Personally I favour Interactive Brokers, but they're pretty similar. Note that both are low cost brokers, so the service is pretty shitty, unlike the substantially more expensive Internaxx which is geared towards expats.
Lots of people advocate pound/dollar/baht cost averaging, promoting gradual investment of a lump sum. Such an approach has been comprehensively debunked. Almost always (but no guarantees) better to be fully invested from day one.
Investing in, and sticking with, a global equity index will give you average performance (ignoring fees). As I think I mentioned previously, that'll give better performance over time than most investors get. Given your lack of experience, it's probably a very good place to start.
One slight twist I personally would make in your circumstances would be to invest in an MSCI World Minimum Volatility ETF. This somewhat reduces your exposure to the most overpriced stocks (particularly technology) that (at least in my opinion) could fall very hard in the not too distant future.
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