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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 16:25:31 GMT 7
I don't know about Thailand but IELTS is huge here and mainland China. Costs 1800 to sit the test and lots of money before that to hone the English skills. Huge business. To get into a western university is a race of the ones who believe the paper will put them under the tree where dollars fall from the branches unlimited. Countries such as Australia with so many Asian students make a killing. I'm a great believer in the practical and the vocational and not the airy-fairy nonsense. When the time comes I will call on all of you again for advice. So in about 7 years.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 17:08:07 GMT 7
The practical and vocational works. Then you get older and things morph. Nice replies Dashboard Ganesh.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 17:14:10 GMT 7
The practical and vocational works. Then you get older and things morph. Nice replies Dashboard Ganesh. Bachelor's needs to be the practical that attracts stability. Masters can be the BS that attracts money. I was tempted to start a part time Master's in nuclear site remediation and waste management, but a Japanese mate talked me out of it. Too much aggravation.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 17:29:04 GMT 7
The husband of a lady I worked with in Qatar both from the UK, he has a super gig in waste management, set it all up and making a shitload ( pardon the pun).
I'd go for that extra bit of paper DG, that guy is in his thirties and well on the up and up, has the Doha sewers sewn up. Lives in 'The Pearl' in Doha, gets to hobnob with the sheik, living the dream, but not without that paper in his hand.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 17:34:56 GMT 7
The husband of a lady I worked with in Qatar both from the UK, he has a super gig in waste management, set it all up and making a shitload ( pardon the pun). I'd go for that extra bit of paper DG, that guy is in his thirties and well on the up and up, has the Doha sewers sewn up. I did a design and tender recently for the remediation of Kuwait/Saudi waste oil pits, 5-10 year project, Al Khafji Joint Operations area. ME seems like a lot of hassle.
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Post by Soutpeel on Oct 4, 2015 18:17:33 GMT 7
Per premise of your OP arent you falling into the trap a lot of people make thinking just because they have spent 3 or 4 or 5 years doing a degree they are entitled to a high paying job ?.....
the average graduate knows shit for the most part about the job they have studied for...
i see this everyday in Thailand with young graduate engineers i mentor, so of whom have masters degrees and really expect to be given the corner office, the BMW and the fat salary straight out of university...
one guy who did a masters degree in offshore engineering...quit because he had to spend time in of all places OFFSHORE and was most horrified he would be out there for 28 days, had to share a cabin with 3 other people and belived we all jumped on choppers Friday afternoon to go home for the weekend....
I kid you not
Someone taking a degree for the sole motivation of how much they can make out of disipline...should not have taken that degree, you should be taking the degree because the subject interests you in the first instance.. yes a career path is important but should be secondary
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 18:45:11 GMT 7
Per premise of your OP arent you falling into the trap a lot of people make thinking just because they have spent 3 or 4 or 5 years doing a degree they are entitled to a high paying job ?..... the average graduate knows shit for the most part about the job they have studied for... i see this everyday in Thailand with young graduate engineers i mentor, so of whom have masters degrees and really expect to be given the corner office, the BMW and the fat salary straight out of university... one guy who did a masters degree in offshore engineering...quit because he had to spend time in of all places OFFSHORE and was most horrified he would be out there for 28 days, had to share a cabin with 3 other people and belived we all jumped on choppers Friday afternoon to go home for the weekend.... I kid you not Someone taking a degree for the sole motivation of how much they can make out of disipline...should not have taken that degree, you should be taking the degree because the subject interests you in the first instance.. yes a career path is important but should be secondary Needs balance. No good spending three to four years learning a bunch of happy clappy hippy nonsense only to have no career options or even work experience. Saw this happen to a few when I went back in the early nineties.
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Post by Fletchsmile on Oct 5, 2015 9:19:26 GMT 7
My first reaction honestly was: Q: "..what is it good for?" ... A: "...absolutely nothing" Then after reading the actual OP I released this was Pink Floyd and not Frankie Goes to Holywood (War). Amazing the influence song lyrics can have even decades later. Like those catch advertising slogans that when you here part of a phrase you finish it....
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Post by Fletchsmile on Oct 5, 2015 9:39:51 GMT 7
Bit suprised that OP's friend's daughter is only earning 11k a month. I thought there was now a minimum of 15k for new graduates.
When I was recruiting a lot in 2 main fields of accounting (non-banks) and banking, some of my criteria included good English, exposure to other cultures, and ability to think and reason and challenge, take on board new info and reappraise.
I'll freely admit, the stronger candidates came from Chula, Thammasat as top 2 state universities and then Assumption/ABAC as private, also then Mahidon and Kasetsart. Not to say that I didn't consider other universities. Just that after hundreds of CVs, interviewing dozens and hiring well into double digits over the years, these universities tended to be more likely to have the attributes I was looking for. No guarantee they would be what I was looking for, but statistically it became a factor to look for. Not to say either the degree was worth much to me either, just it correlated with the type of people wanted. No doubt a factor was they'd already been given the best starts and best chances in life.
So the young lady in question would have been on my radar screen coming from ABAC and in same white collar field as I've spent a lot of time working here. That university education would have been a plus. The main difference for me was it was one factor and I would consider people without it on their own merits. In Thailand as we know many people don't appraise though on merit, and they may not even get looked at. So That's a difference.
Thai employers and Thais generally attach even more importance to certificates and qualifications. They're often just pieces of paper like the minimum opening bid you bring to the table. Particularly in white collar roles. I think that's often just a status thing for them. Like what part of the country do you come from, what colour you skin is etc
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Post by Fletchsmile on Oct 5, 2015 9:54:45 GMT 7
Is it worth spending all that money on? Great question. One I ask myself a lot too. To put your kid thru a good international school and then private university you'll probably have little change out of THB 10mn. A few points: - Like it or not Thailand unfortunately is a lot about pieces of paper, where you were educated, connections, how wealthy you are (and of course skin colour). So when paying for the education you're also paying at the same time for these things. You may not like the idea - and I don't - but if you object and refuse to play the system, it won't change anything just someone else will, as so many Thais will be doing this and attaching importance to them. - So it's not the education itself per say. Just what it gets you started with and the other things it brings. Plus no doubt for Thais there's a face element. For me I look at the practical side - just without the face - While 15k may be the starting salary, that can rise quickly in good accounting and finance roles. Plenty of people in accounting and banking earning 6 digits per month in THB/ 100,000's. So it's what comes later. If you don't pay for that education then you most likely won't get to these later salaries in banking/accounting/finance. Not impossible and there are exceptions. Just unlikely - The people who make good money in Thailand and don't have the education OP refers to usually do so as entrepreneurs and with their own businesses. Even then connections are important and I'd say more people make it with the pieces of paper than without. So all in all, I don't particularly like the system and the way it's looked at and the values and the cost But if you're going to statistically maximise your child's chances in Thailand it's a route to take. It's the Thais' country and their rules and that's the way they play it. You take it or leave it. As a parent I go with pay for as much as I can afford to give them the best I can. On my value system there are plenty of other qualities for success in life, which I can and do help try instill, but unfortunately not necessarily the values of Thai society. Cheers Fletch
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 10:30:11 GMT 7
Nothing wrong with getting an education.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Oct 5, 2015 11:01:55 GMT 7
Is it worth spending all that money on? Great question. One I ask myself a lot too. To put your kid thru a good international school and then private university you'll probably have little change out of THB 10mn. A few points: - Like it or not Thailand unfortunately is a lot about pieces of paper, where you were educated, connections, how wealthy you are (and of course skin colour). So when paying for the education you're also paying at the same time for these things. You may not like the idea - and I don't - but if you object and refuse to play the system, it won't change anything just someone else will, as so many Thais will be doing this and attaching importance to them. - So it's not the education itself per say. Just what it gets you started with and the other things it brings. Plus no doubt for Thais there's a face element. For me I look at the practical side - just without the face - While 15k may be the starting salary, that can rise quickly in good accounting and finance roles. Plenty of people in accounting and banking earning 6 digits per month in THB/ 100,000's. So it's what comes later. If you don't pay for that education then you most likely won't get to these later salaries in banking/accounting/finance. Not impossible and there are exceptions. Just unlikely - The people who make good money in Thailand and don't have the education OP refers to usually do so as entrepreneurs and with their own businesses. Even then connections are important and I'd say more people make it with the pieces of paper than without. So all in all, I don't particularly like the system and the way it's looked at and the values and the cost But if you're going to statistically maximise your child's chances in Thailand it's a route to take. It's the Thais' country and their rules and that's the way they play it. You take it or leave it. As a parent I go with pay for as much as I can afford to give them the best I can. On my value system there are plenty of other qualities for success in life, which I can and do help try instill, but unfortunately not necessarily the values of Thai society. Cheers Fletch Saved me the bother of typing the whole post, but this stands out. I will give the Thais (and Asians in this part of the world) their due, connections count big time over here, coupled with the patronage system. Many form friendships at Uni that last their entire life, I have lost track the number of times when after completing business and just idle chit chatting about something, one of these women will say, oh you need to talk to my friend she works at X Y or Z, she deals with this. This isnt any commission driven thing, its a desire to help. Fletch knows the places I am talking of, large finacial institutions, these girls aint on peanuts, as mentioned 6 figure salaries are achievable. With the girls language skills I am surprised she didnt consider something like Thai airways etc etc, or one of the large hotels, but again it comed back to the patronage system.
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siampolee
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Post by siampolee on Oct 5, 2015 11:09:19 GMT 7
We need to remember that in the main our school years are but the preparatory school for real life experiences.Learning, education whatever term you may use is an ongoing experience.
My and many other graduates ability to achieve our degrees was in my view and I am sure others views was that we had the ability to remember given things at a given moment on given subjects.
Certainly that applied to me when I left Dartmouth college and was commanding a capital bunch of sailor who had a vast range of experience which thankfully they shared with me by both example and advice.
One is only as good in a management or command structure as your subordinates perceive you and thus let you be. Respect has to be both given and earned to be successful. The same situation applies in any work place with ones equals and senior team leaders, shine and you'll succeed.
A good solid education base is essential, however when that is in place and you venture into the world of commerce, design, engineering military, financial etc then your, or our real education begins.
I was lucky, a product of the old grammar school system of the 1950's in the U.K. Friends of mine who didn't achieve grammar school status went into apprenticeships with day release schemes followed by city and guilds.Then we had an excellent system where practical experience was intertwined with theory and the results were indeed first class artisan, white collar types etc were in their chosen industry,professionals and all benefited.
Education is a lottery, you are investing in a future that is in truth somewhat unpredictable, your children , my children, our children have their own ideas as opposed to those ideas we may want for them.
It makes me angry when I hear parents stating, ''our child is going to be a doctor, vet, engineer etc when they grow up .It isn't the parent life its the child's life.
Our boys have taken the paths they wanted made me shudder a bit , but they've succeeded in their chosen fields.
My parents guided and advised me but the decisions made were my decisions, their sage advice was welcome and helpful in judging matters but finally it was my decision my steps my life.
I sometimes wonder looking back and forward why we have kids!!
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pathumseb
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Post by pathumseb on Oct 5, 2015 11:49:46 GMT 7
Interesting thread, was thinking about this last night. At my school education is very test and grade centered. Both parents and admin attach a lot of importance to this. However, most are well aware that there is more to school than this, particularly when you are learning a language; the education system needs to be able to prepare you to use knowledge in a real life setting. I teach first graders, we learn English through drama,cooking,craft,sport and educational games. Of course we also have to fill in the books, but I get the feeling the most meaningful learning happens when my classes use English in hand on activities. One of the sad things is that they speak more English than the Thai teachers put together, which sadly makes translation and using the students' home language to support their learning somewhat difficult.
Education is everything, it's rarely a waste of time. It's not always about $$$ as <Bunny boiler> pointed out. The pay bump from my M.Ed is moderate at best but the process did make me grow up quite a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 11:57:18 GMT 7
Bit suprised that OP's friend's daughter is only earning 11k a month. I thought there was now a minimum of 15k for new graduates. When I was recruiting a lot in 2 main fields of accounting (non-banks) and banking, some of my criteria included good English, exposure to other cultures, and ability to think and reason and challenge, take on board new info and reappraise. I'll freely admit, the stronger candidates came from Chula, Thammasat as top 2 state universities and then Assumption/ABAC as private, also then Mahidon and Kasetsart. Not to say that I didn't consider other universities. Just that after hundreds of CVs, interviewing dozens and hiring well into double digits over the years, these universities tended to be more likely to have the attributes I was looking for. No guarantee they would be what I was looking for, but statistically it became a factor to look for. Not to say either the degree was worth much to me either, just it correlated with the type of people wanted. No doubt a factor was they'd already been given the best starts and best chances in life. So the young lady in question would have been on my radar screen coming from ABAC and in same white collar field as I've spent a lot of time working here. That university education would have been a plus. The main difference for me was it was one factor and I would consider people without it on their own merits. In Thailand as we know many people don't appraise though on merit, and they may not even get looked at. So That's a difference. Thai employers and Thais generally attach even more importance to certificates and qualifications. They're often just pieces of paper like the minimum opening bid you bring to the table. Particularly in white collar roles. I think that's often just a status thing for them. Like what part of the country do you come from, what colour you skin is etc Thank you, Fletch. That's the information I was looking for. Friends daughter went to Assumption, from school onward.
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