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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2015 6:06:18 GMT 7
Interesting article - and I can see where he/they are coming from. www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/30/britain-first-world-war-biggest-error-niall-ferguson "Britain could have lived with a German victory in the first world war, and should have stayed out of the conflict in 1914, according to the historian Niall Ferguson, who described the intervention as "the biggest error in modern history". I reckon that Niall Ferguson is the sharpest historian in the world at the moment - but there are times he annoys the life out of me. Like when, I don't agree with him.
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siampolee
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Post by siampolee on Nov 5, 2015 7:06:06 GMT 7
All wars are a mistake having been involved in the odd skirmish or two in my youth I am heartily in favour of peace as as opposed to those old ''bang bang games.''
The roots of the first world war are deep and indeed a tangled complex in their formation, politically , territory and family wise concerning the dynastic family links of the then European royalty.
Hindsight is wonderful ,sadly though in the current situations around this world of ours we seem to have ignored all the lessons of our past.
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me
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Post by me on Nov 5, 2015 8:37:56 GMT 7
Interesting article - and I can see where he/they are coming from. www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/30/britain-first-world-war-biggest-error-niall-ferguson "Britain could have lived with a German victory in the first world war, and should have stayed out of the conflict in 1914, according to the historian Niall Ferguson, who described the intervention as "the biggest error in modern history". I reckon that Niall Ferguson is the sharpest historian in the world at the moment - but there are times he annoys the life out of me. Like when, I don't agree with him. Remember the English monarchs surname then?
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rubl
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Post by rubl on Nov 5, 2015 8:55:52 GMT 7
The Great War to End All Wars ! Even the military were worried for a while that they'd lose their job afterwards
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cmk
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Post by cmk on Nov 5, 2015 12:31:25 GMT 7
I watched the documentary that inspired the article.
Ferguson states the British entry into the war made it a world war and that Britain entered/started WWI because Churchill was a war lover and that not entering the war would have caused the government to fall because of the resignation on Churchill and Graves.
So WWI started because the government in power did not want to lose control to the Tories. He also states the artillery was the major killer; that and the flu. I didn't know that. What I found refreshing was the admission that the war was sustained by providing whores and proper cheese and cigarettes to the front line troops.
In my opinion whores were one of the bright spots of my war experiences and ranked right up there shooting machine guns and dropping bombs.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2015 17:05:57 GMT 7
Hind sight perhaps? Wars are full of them.
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siampolee
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Post by siampolee on Nov 5, 2015 17:23:00 GMT 7
To right there.
Nothing wrong with being in a manhole and shooting down into a dark damp warm cavity to seek out whether the owner occupants were friendly or hostile after the personal bombing one had carried out !!
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Post by rgs2001uk on Nov 5, 2015 22:01:39 GMT 7
I watched the documentary that inspired the article. Ferguson states the British entry into the war made it a world war and that Britain entered/started WWI because Churchill was a war lover and that not entering the war would have caused the government to fall because of the resignation on Churchill and Graves. So WWI started because the government in power did not want to lose control to the Tories. He also states the artillery was the major killer; that and the flu. I didn't know that. What I found refreshing was the admission that the war was sustained by providing whores and proper cheese and cigarettes to the front line troops. In my opinion whores were one of the bright spots of my war experiences and ranked right up there shooting machine guns and dropping bombs. Quite a claim to make, what was your PAFSC?
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cmk
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Post by cmk on Nov 9, 2015 7:34:22 GMT 7
I watched the documentary that inspired the article. Ferguson states the British entry into the war made it a world war and that Britain entered/started WWI because Churchill was a war lover and that not entering the war would have caused the government to fall because of the resignation on Churchill and Graves. So WWI started because the government in power did not want to lose control to the Tories. He also states the artillery was the major killer; that and the flu. I didn't know that. What I found refreshing was the admission that the war was sustained by providing whores and proper cheese and cigarettes to the front line troops. In my opinion whores were one of the bright spots of my war experiences and ranked right up there shooting machine guns and dropping bombs. Quite a claim to make, what was your PAFSC? Army . My experience suggests it was location rather than MOS that determined job function . Getting breakfast and whores for the general was not to my knowledge a specific job title. Being the lowest ranking man in the office meant the sh** jobs. I'd tell you more about my personal file but I think you want to mock me. There were a lot of hookers and bombs/machine guns in the Vietnam war in both Vietnam and Thailand. Recently I started receiving a disability pension and the VA agreed to take care of most of my medical costs at Thai hospitals and I'm very thankful for that. So, actually my time in the Army and the Vietnam war has worked out well (once I got over being upset about injuries I received will eventually cause my death). I enjoyed watching the above documentary about WWI as I was not familiar with the brothels and alcohol and tobacco and other comforts of home that were provided to the fellows in the trenches. I was under the impression they slogged around in the mud and got gassed all day long. I wrote a lot about my war experiences some fiction some real on Stickman anyone can read them.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Nov 9, 2015 11:02:58 GMT 7
Not mock you at all, I spent years working alongside guys who were there, so am more than familiar with the stories, lost count of the number of night shifts we passed away the small hours as tales of Vietnam and Thailand were told.
These were all USAF guys, although a couple were ex USMC and USN, most would be in their 70s by now, and at least a couple of them are now dead.
Another couple of them are now back in Thailand and tend not to mention where they were or what they did, unless they are around others who were there.
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cmk
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Post by cmk on Nov 9, 2015 13:11:07 GMT 7
Most in Thailand were USAF and Navy. Vietnam mostly army. I was in army aviation kind of in between. The army wanted air assets and the air force wanted the army not to have an an airforce again. The guys in the airforce who did my job had better quarters and thicker mattresses. My VFW chapter in Thailand has about 90 members. Anyone can see what I did during the war as it is online in all it's raving glory (I don't need to talk about it). They didn't let me shoot machine guns or drop bombs as often as I wanted to. I liked the noise. I had to fly to get flight pay but I didn't have any regular flight duties so it was a, "please would you take me with you" situation.
Senator Fulbright, chairman of the American committee of foreign relations said Saigon had become an American brothel. It had and it was a fun city if one ignored the occasional bomb blasts. The American public disliked the characterization of sons hanging out with Asian hookers and Saigon was put off limits to GI's. It was the beginning of the end.
I liked the video of WWI because it talked about a part of the war that is seldom mentioned and the same is true about Vietnam and my views of war in general. War should be fun and filled with hookers cheap booze and tobacco. My view has never found much acceptance with the officer corps and I really don't talk about it much now or back then.
Fly around in the daytime in a fast awesomely armed prop fighters of WWII and at night across the street to Kilo Sip for massage and bars and get paid for it.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Nov 9, 2015 13:34:20 GMT 7
The one thing all these guys had in common, was their praise for the Parachute Jumpers, they referred to them as PJs.
Thats a tale that isnt often told or heard.
Some of the guys were in Da Nang, the Thai based ones were in Korat or upcountry.
The only Kilo Sip I know of is down by Sattahip way, there used to be a night market there.
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cmk
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Post by cmk on Nov 9, 2015 17:50:27 GMT 7
The one thing all these guys had in common, was their praise for the Parachute Jumpers, they referred to them as PJs. Thats a tale that isnt often told or heard. Some of the guys were in Da Nang, the Thai based ones were in Korat or upcountry. The only Kilo Sip I know of is down by Sattahip way, there used to be a night market there. Yes Kilo sip across the street from U Tapao. There is one lady still working the area who used to be there in 1968.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Nov 10, 2015 14:35:38 GMT 7
Ah the memories come flooding back.
One of the guys blamed his stint in this part of the world as the reason he caught Hepatitis B.
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cmk
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Post by cmk on Nov 12, 2015 15:43:26 GMT 7
The one thing all these guys had in common, was their praise for the Parachute Jumpers, they referred to them as PJs. Thats a tale that isnt often told or heard. Some of the guys were in Da Nang, the Thai based ones were in Korat or upcountry. The only Kilo Sip I know of is down by Sattahip way, there used to be a night market there. Speaking of Parachute Jumpers. Seventy years ago, Jim "Pee Wee" Martin parachuted into France, behind German enemy lines, in the dark of night ahead of the D-Day invasion. On June 6, 2014, at 93, the WWII veteran jumped into Normandy again, in a full military kit, marking the anniversary of the June 6th Allied troops landing. Before jumping he said, "They are worried about me getting hurt. I said, 'Don't worry about it. If I get hurt or I get killed, what is the difference? I've lived 93 years. I've had a good life.'" Attachment Deleted
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