Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2015 21:15:52 GMT 7
I've got dozens of clips and doco's related to the Vietnam War. I was restricted in the other place to Thai content, which meant a few good doco's went unseen. This thread is not a political thread - although the politics will have to be covered. Please refrain from launching the predictable attacks - we can discuss, not flame, on this most sensitive of subjects.
Experiences and opinions welcome - attacks, not. Lets start with a BBC doco -
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geronimo
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Post by geronimo on Nov 13, 2015 6:41:56 GMT 7
Actually, the US was doomed from the start, men fighting a war they did not want to be in, against a people fighting to keep their homeland. Add the VC propaganda and there you have it.
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siampolee
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Post by siampolee on Nov 13, 2015 7:02:57 GMT 7
Certainly the Vietnam war was a war that was doomed from the start.
Unwilling conscripts fighting a guerrilla style war where it came down to local knowledge holding local ground.
Big bang bang toys looked good sounded good but did nothing.
I played war games for real and it aint fun.
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buhi
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Post by buhi on Nov 13, 2015 18:32:55 GMT 7
Just finished watching this excellent documentary.
I will not comment in depth.
I am here in Bangkok, 30 plus degrees outside and after twenty years I cannot exert myself without the torture of my body not being acclimatized.
Anyone viewing should be in a very hot humid environment.
Keep out of cultures you cannot truly understand in a political aspect.
Proxy wars.
All wars are foolish, but proxy wars stupid.
Vietnam hated , still does , the Chinese and as for Russia, (USSR) a European country as French as the French.
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sl
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Post by sl on Nov 13, 2015 19:42:41 GMT 7
Some of you might remember this picture below,…
I was curious. When in Saigon a few months ago, we went for visit. If you do go, please be polite (and show some gratitude) to the security officer (he will escort you). There is a sign in the reception area (building rents office spaces now) stating there will be no visitors permitted to the top floor (9th). 22 Gia Long Street, now 22 Lý Tự Trọng Street, is an apartment building in Ho Chi Minh City, then called Saigon, that became an icon of the Fall of Saigon when chosen as an assembly point for Operation Frequent Wind in 1975. A Dutch photographer, Hubert van Es, working for UPI, took a photograph that captured the last chaotic days of the Vietnam War, which many people believed showed desperate Americans crowding on to the roof of the United States Embassy to board a helicopter. The building in fact was an apartment building that housed employees of the United States Agency for International Development with its top floor reserved for the Central Intelligence Agency's deputy chief of station. The photo depicts an Air America Huey helicopter landing on the roof of the elevator shaft to evacuate employees of the U. S. Government as North Vietnamese Army troops entered Saigon. The current address is 22 Lý Tự Trọng Street (named after Lý Tự Trọng, a 17-year-old communist executed by the French) and visitors are not allowed access to the roof. www.triposo.com/poi/T__e3f8c4ce5887
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Post by rgs2001uk on Nov 13, 2015 21:20:47 GMT 7
Certainly the Vietnam war was a war that was doomed from the start. Unwilling conscripts fighting a guerrilla style war where it came down to local knowledge holding local ground. Big bang bang toys looked good sounded good but did nothing. I played war games for real and it aint fun. A lot of truth in what you say. However its a bit hard trying to fight a war when your hands are tied by politicians. The same lessons still havent been learned today. Jeez the bloody Brits cant even decide on whether to give the military a free hand in Syria, ISIS has no borders. PS, well dont to our American colleagues for exterminating that piece of Brit filth, the Brits will probably be hauled up before some Court of Human Rights, presided over by a bunch of liberals. The sooner we escape the madness that is the EU, the better.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2015 3:09:51 GMT 7
From a British perspective again - when Dennis Healy was appointed Secretary of State for Defence there were a lot of worried military men. The story goes that the top brass approached Healy and asked that not commit our boys to Vietnam. One thing about the Brits, they knew the folly of jungle warfare. Healy agreed, and ensured that the UK would not be bound into the war.
At a later date, Prime Minister Harold Wilson was asked why he wasn't more vocal in his opposition to the war. His pragmatic reply?
"You don't kick your creditors in the balls."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2015 3:12:24 GMT 7
The Battle of Long Tan
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buhi
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Post by buhi on Nov 15, 2015 13:59:35 GMT 7
Switching threads again.
See my post on Quackers.
Can we get this all on one thread?
Having refreshed my memory on Quackerism, and in truth I did not study a great deal about American Quackers, but how ironic that Nixon , yes the Vietnam one, came from a Quacker family.
Another irony is Norwich, strongly influenced by Quackers, did have more Public Houses than any other city.
Birmingham on the other hand, when I lived there , had very strict rules on the sale of alcohol and licensing. Sunday, pubs closed at 10 pm.
Such are the absurdities of idealism.
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cmk
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Post by cmk on Nov 15, 2015 16:11:11 GMT 7
97% Of Vietnam Era Veterans were honorably discharged. 25% (648,500) Of total forces in country were draftees. 9,087,000 Military personnel served on active duty during the Vietnam Era. Aug. 5, 1964 - May 7, 1975 3,403,100 (Including 514,300 Offshore) Personnel served in the Southeast Asia Theater (Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Flight Crews based in Thailand, and sailors in adjacent South China Sea Waters.) 2,594,000 Personnel served within the borders of South Vietnam. Jan. 1, 1965 - Mar. 28, 1973 Fact: 2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers. 2/3 of the men who served in World War II were drafted. Approximately 70% of those killed in Vietnam were volunteers. The domino theory was accurate. The ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) countries, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand stayed free of Communism because of the U.S. commitment to Vietnam Tet Offensive was a total defeat of the Communist forces on all fronts. It resulted in the death of some 45,000 NVA troops and the complete, if not total destruction of the Viet Cong elements in South Vietnam The fall of Saigon happened 30 April 1975, two years AFTER the American military left Vietnam. The American military was not defeated in Vietnam. The American military did not lose a battle of any consequence. From a military standpoint, it was almost an unprecedented performance www.lzcenter.com/Myths%20and%20Facts.htmlwww.veteranshour.com/vietnam_war_statistics.htm
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cmk
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Post by cmk on Nov 15, 2015 16:14:57 GMT 7
Some of you might remember this picture below,…
I was curious. When in Saigon a few months ago, we went for visit. If you do go, please be polite (and show some gratitude) to the security officer (he will escort you). There is a sign in the reception area (building rents office spaces now) stating there will be no visitors permitted to the top floor (9th). 22 Gia Long Street, now 22 Lý Tự Trọng Street, is an apartment building in Ho Chi Minh City, then called Saigon, that became an icon of the Fall of Saigon when chosen as an assembly point for Operation Frequent Wind in 1975. A Dutch photographer, Hubert van Es, working for UPI, took a photograph that captured the last chaotic days of the Vietnam War, which many people believed showed desperate Americans crowding on to the roof of the United States Embassy to board a helicopter. The building in fact was an apartment building that housed employees of the United States Agency for International Development with its top floor reserved for the Central Intelligence Agency's deputy chief of station. The photo depicts an Air America Huey helicopter landing on the roof of the elevator shaft to evacuate employees of the U. S. Government as North Vietnamese Army troops entered Saigon. The current address is 22 Lý Tự Trọng Street (named after Lý Tự Trọng, a 17-year-old communist executed by the French) and visitors are not allowed access to the roof. www.triposo.com/poi/T__e3f8c4ce5887The 140,000 evacuees in April 1975 during the fall of Saigon consisted almost entirely of civilians and Vietnamese military, NOT American military.
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cmk
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Post by cmk on Nov 15, 2015 16:50:05 GMT 7
My favorite Vietnam story is operation Igloo White. A billion dollar program some called the Manhattan project of the Vietnam war that was headquartered at Nakhon Phanom. Billions of dollars of research and billions of dollars of expense to implement and the devastation being accomplished by million dollar aircraft to wipe out a few $6,000 dollar Chinese trucks carrying rice on the Ho Chi Minh trail.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2015 18:17:22 GMT 7
Thanks CMK -do you have more info re Igloo White? links?
The Tet Offensive -
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cmk
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Post by cmk on Nov 15, 2015 19:54:23 GMT 7
www.westin553.net/batcat33.htm You can google the rest from the links. The US only bombed all out about a month before the Paris Peace Accords were signed. SAC gave control to the air force in Guam. And everyone complained. Sweden's ambassadors were removed and even the Australian PM complained! Linebacker II. Could the US have weathered the bad PR and the B-52 losses for longer? I don't know. The US signed an agreement guaranteeing the South Vietnam would lose. Although the South Vietnamese government made the current Thai government look honest by comparison. It amazed me it took the North so long. If the USA could have won without killing anyone the war would have been winnable. If we killed NVA soldiers/people or USA's mom's son the war had to stop. Was America wrong to try? All those who think Vietnam has a government of the people raise your hands.
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me
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Post by me on Nov 15, 2015 23:26:53 GMT 7
www.westin553.net/batcat33.htm You can google the rest from the links. The US only bombed all out about a month before the Paris Peace Accords were signed. SAC gave control to the air force in Guam. And everyone complained. Sweden's ambassadors were removed and even the Australian PM complained! Linebacker II. Could the US have weathered the bad PR and the B-52 losses for longer? I don't know. The US signed an agreement guaranteeing the South Vietnam would lose. Although the South Vietnamese government made the current Thai government look honest by comparison. It amazed me it took the North so long. If the USA could have won without killing anyone the war would have been winnable. If we killed NVA soldiers/people or USA's mom's son the war had to stop. Was America wrong to try? All those who think Vietnam has a government of the people raise your hands. All those who think the US has a government of the people raise your hands
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