smokie36
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Post by smokie36 on Nov 21, 2015 22:12:06 GMT 7
Well my opinion is simply that those who have paid their tax and Ni contributions sufficiently over the years should be free to retire wherever they choose and receive full pension for the rest of their lives.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 22:12:15 GMT 7
SP -
No - it's not my view that people should be cheated.
If there had been a change to pension policy leaving people high and dry then that would be cheating.
There hasn't been.
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smokie36
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Post by smokie36 on Nov 21, 2015 22:29:34 GMT 7
SP - No - it's not my view that people should be cheated. If there had been a change to pension policy leaving people high and dry then that would be cheating. There hasn't been. You are talking about due diligence....when in reality the policy is a bit of a cheat. i wonder what the reasons were for the policy in the first place...given it is supposedly 50 years old and not been changed. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 23:09:20 GMT 7
SP - No - it's not my view that people should be cheated. If there had been a change to pension policy leaving people high and dry then that would be cheating. There hasn't been. You are talking about due diligence....when in reality the policy is a bit of a cheat. i wonder what the reasons were for the policy in the first place...given it is supposedly 50 years old and not been changed. It's a matter of treaty between two countries. The Thai government has to come to the table and offer concessions - There is zero cheating element to this policy. The policy is clear, decades old. It's not even a "small print," issue. It's well known - and any retiree who claims ignorance has only themselves to blame. ........................................................ SP brought up the insurance analogy - This very day we were discussing insurance policies - We all know to check the small print. |
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Post by Fletchsmile on Nov 21, 2015 23:22:24 GMT 7
This is always an emotive topic  Blether's point is valid though. To use the example on his insurance he took out a contract and read the terms and conditions of when it pays out. Anyone can do that and would be treated the same. For the state pension the terms and conditions have been around for decades. According to these terms and conditions the pension is frozen if you move overseas. So the contract is being fulfilled, and no-one is being cheated in line with the actual terms and conditions. They get exactly what the law says they should get. Stay in the UK and it gets increased. Move and it may not, depending on country. It's a choice. Unfortunately a lot of people rightly or wrongly are unaware of the rules. I can sort of understand that pre-internet age. But for the last 20 years or so there's been enough info around. These days people should just have a look on the internet or the government's website about moving overseas. So when they make their choice to move overseas they have to forgo the state pension increases. The main difference for government pensions is that the government gives special privileges to their own. To be equitable these special privileges shouldn't really exist and their pensions should also be frozen just like anyone else's if the rules for normal pensions freeze them. Another dimension is that originally the welfare state was to support those who needed it. Somewhere along the line it slipped into what people believe they are entitled to, and then went further as to what they are "morally entitled" to or "ways to boost income and claim benefits". That's one reason of many why the welfare system cripples the UK - not necessarily just pensions but the whole welfare system of people just claiming their "benefits or "entitlements". So really today people are getting exactly what the terms and conditions say, given their choices made, and in many cases they don't actually need the additional money. For those that do really need it, the system may well have failed in some cases. One thing is very clear is that today's pensioners will be better off than the next generation. The way the government has messed up all these things, if more is to be given to today's pensioners that means that the generation funding it - today's workers - will be even worse off. The biggest mistake is that pensions are funded out of current taxes/ NI and the government never stuck the money away to pay for it Today's frozen pensioners may think they have a raw deal, but the frozen pensioners of future decades will have it even worse, and they're the ones that would pick up the tab if rules were amended retrospectively. Someone has to pay for it. Myself, I'm well aware that I'll get less than the previous generation in real terms for a pension. That's not really fair either, but just the way it is. My frozen pension relatively in real terms will be worse than the frozen pension of those before me. My call though to be in Thailand though. From my perspective the bigger issue is that my state pension (if I even get one) will be worth less in real terms than my father's under exactly the same terms and conditions and thru no fault of mine. The frozen pension issue is at least one I can choose. Getting less than the previous generation isn't. Until the government sticks away money for the future like real pensions this situation will just deteriorate. Frozen pensions is just the tip of the iceberg for the pension mess An interesting question is where all the money would come from or should have come from to make it all equitable not just for frozen pensions, but for the future retirees where there won't be enough workers to support them and repay the debt. Future generations in the UK look stuffed when it comes to debt... Now if my kids ever moved back to the UK, I reckon they'd seriously have some complaints about what they've inherited  |
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smokie36
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Post by smokie36 on Nov 21, 2015 23:23:08 GMT 7
You are talking about due diligence....when in reality the policy is a bit of a cheat. i wonder what the reasons were for the policy in the first place...given it is supposedly 50 years old and not been changed. It's a matter of treaty between two countries. The Thai government has to come to the table and offer concessions - There is zero cheating element to this policy. The policy is clear, decades old. It's not even a "small print," issue. It's well known - and any retiree who claims ignorance has only themselves to blame. ........................................................ SP brought up the insurance analogy - This very day we were discussing insurance policies - We all know to check the small print. In actual fact to someone who has worked solidly for 50 years and paid all o their taxes I can understand why they would feel cheated at receiving less than their fellow pensioners in the UK....that is what I was driving at. Due diligence...on possibly one of the most important aspects of a retirement...well just silly not to have checked the small print I agree. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 23:30:15 GMT 7
^^ Anyway it's a moot point. The days of Thailand being an affordable retirement location for Brits on the state pension are coming to an end.
Now that the Thai gov has tackled the METV issue, I lay short odds that retirement visas are next for a shakeup.
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smokie36
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Post by smokie36 on Nov 21, 2015 23:37:23 GMT 7
^^ Anyway it's a moot point. The days of Thailand being an affordable retirement location for Brits on the state pension are coming to an end. Now that the Thai gov has tackled the METV issue, I lay short odds that retirement visas are next for a shakeup. I think the shakeup might involve proper medical insurance...at least I hope it does. Its a disgrace people retiring to Thailand without proper cover. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 23:48:43 GMT 7
^^ Anyway it's a moot point. The days of Thailand being an affordable retirement location for Brits on the state pension are coming to an end. Now that the Thai gov has tackled the METV issue, I lay short odds that retirement visas are next for a shakeup. I think the shakeup might involve proper medical insurance...at least I hope it does. Its a disgrace people retiring to Thailand without proper cover. Check out this video - |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 0:01:32 GMT 7
^^ £300,000 debt.
"No one wants to know me."
"I think I'm a psychiatric case."
You know, those journalists could have found hundreds more if they looked, if not thousands.
And I am appalled at the amount of people putting pressure on a vulnerable healthcare system.
I agree with Smokie - health insurance should be mandatory.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Nov 22, 2015 10:34:54 GMT 7
Its beyond me how anyone in their right mind would even consider Thailand with nothing but a state pension.
What have they done all their working life, have they no company pension scheme?
Its always me me effin me with these people, no personal responsibilty.
Maybe Fletch can put us right here, because I am one who may be in this boat, I rememeber a good few years ago, if your other pensions combined with state pension exceeded a certain amount, the state pension would be reduced.
Personally its nothing more than a bonus to me, certainly not something I am expecting or demanding.
Gawd forbid I should ever find myself in the position its was something I needed to survive.
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siampolee
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Post by siampolee on Nov 22, 2015 11:17:26 GMT 7
Agreed with rgs2001uk ,the fact is that it is a matter of principle as opposed to necessity
The very fact that certain persons are penalized due to the fact of where they have chosen to live for whatever reasons is wrong.
Laws against racial, religious and gender discrimination are all enshrined in the U.K. statute book(s).
There is no problem in paying incarcerated convicted criminals an allowances each week along with the cost of supporting their families whilst those convicted prisoners are serving their sentences and no doubt in many cases after they have been released and unable or unwilling to find employment.
Those people have contributed nothing to society and are not likely to do so either yet those who have paid their way in full and as said chosen to reside in certain other countries are penalized for that fact.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 12:57:14 GMT 7
Agreed with rgs2001uk ,the fact is that it is a matter of principle as opposed to necessity The very fact that certain persons are penalized due to the fact of where they have chosen to live for whatever reasons is wrong. Laws against racial, religious and gender discrimination are all enshrined in the U.K. statute book(s). There is no problem in paying incarcerated convicted criminals an allowances each week along with the cost of supporting their families whilst those convicted prisoners are serving their sentences and no doubt in many cases after they have been released and unable or unwilling to find employment. Those people have contributed nothing to society and are not likely to do so either yet those who have paid their way in full and as said chosen to reside in certain other countries are penalized for that fact. We rehabiltate offenders so that society is not scarred by an underclass of the desparate. Their punishment is incarceration and all that involves. Attacking their pensions is not and will never be on the agenda. |
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Post by rgs2001uk on Nov 22, 2015 13:57:35 GMT 7
^^ Anyway it's a moot point. The days of Thailand being an affordable retirement location for Brits on the state pension are coming to an end. Now that the Thai gov has tackled the METV issue, I lay short odds that retirement visas are next for a shakeup. I disagree with this, there never was a time when Thailand was a cheap place to retire to on a state pension. Even if we go back lets say 10 years ago, pension of 600 pounds per month x 75 baht to the pound = 45,000 baht per month. The immi regulations require 65,000 per month if single or 40,000 if married. I have said it before and will repeat, Thailand, never was, is not and never will be a cheap place to retire to. Most of these people dont remember the days of 36 or 38 baht to the pound. Today at 50 baht to the pound, 600 pension only comes to 30,000 per month. What kills these guys is the monthly stipend they pay. It all comes back to the selection process. Why oh why do so many decide to sell their only source of income and invest it in someone elses name, eg their house. Even a modest house will pull in around 500 pounds per month in rent. What they invest in here is dead money. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 14:03:35 GMT 7
^^ Anyway it's a moot point. The days of Thailand being an affordable retirement location for Brits on the state pension are coming to an end. Now that the Thai gov has tackled the METV issue, I lay short odds that retirement visas are next for a shakeup. I disagree with this, there never was a time when Thailand was a cheap place to retire to on a state pension. Even if we go back lets say 10 years ago, pension of 600 pounds per month x 75 baht to the pound = 45,000 baht per month. The immi regulations require 65,000 per month if single or 40,000 if married. I have said it before and will repeat, Thailand, never was, is not and never will be a cheap place to retire to. Most of these people dont remember the days of 36 or 38 baht to the pound. Today at 50 baht to the pound, 600 pension only comes to 30,000 per month. What kills these guys is the monthly stipend they pay. It all comes back to the selection process. Why oh why do so many decide to sell their only source of income and invest it in someone elses name, eg their house. Even a modest house will pull in around 500 pounds per month in rent. What they invest in here is dead money. When I wrote it I had in mind that said retiree would have the 800,000 baht required to qualify for a visa ( unlikely ). There's plenty on existence mode - 30,000 a month, pray that they don't take sick and accept they'll never see the UK again. That's the guys that rock up in hospitals for the poor, take beds away from the Thai needy - then bump the bill. |
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