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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 15:54:50 GMT 7
From next April - www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/20/basic-state-pension-to-rise-to-119-from-next-april-says-treasury The basic state pension will rise to £119.30 a week from April 2016, the Treasury has confirmed. George Osborne, the chancellor, will highlight the £570 a year rise in his autumn statement next week, despite criticisms of the protections being afforded to pensioners at a time of deep cuts to public spending and to welfare payments for those of working age . The 2.9% increase matches the rise in average earnings – one of the three “triple lock” safeguards in place to ensure pensioners receive a minimum of 2.5% extra each year, regardless of low inflation. It will take total spending on the state pension to £95bn next year. |
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siampolee
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Post by siampolee on Nov 21, 2015 17:01:42 GMT 7
However if you are U.K. citizen who is a resident of Thailand your pension is frozen at the rate prevailing when you took your state pension despite having paid in full and have a complete contributions record. Nothing more than a common fraud and state sponsored theft and blatant discrimination against one section of society. We who reside overseas actually save the state a large sum of money. Health care costs plus all of the assorted allowances free and subsidized travel etc yet we are penalized. We need to assume ''refugee'' status and we will then be far better taken care of despite having paid nothing into the system nor ever likely too either. U.K governments treatment of a section of its citizens is disgraceful. Strange how all the bleeding heart on the sleeves plaster shits saints like Geldof etc never speak out for the U.K citizens who are in need i.e. the disabled, homeless etc yet they are strident in their comments concerning ''refugee's.''However financial and constructive assistantance is sadly lacking. Rhetoric is free actions demand commitment.  |
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Post by Fletchsmile on Nov 21, 2015 17:45:10 GMT 7
Have to been honest SP, I'm never convinced by the saving the government money argument for pensioners living in Thailand. Another key factor is that pensioners in Thailand are not spending their money in the UK. So all the money they receive from the UK for their pension is spent here and has no benefit to the UK economy or UK society. On the other hand a pensioner living in the UK will be spending their pension in the UK. This has a multiplier effect and boost the UK economy. For example they go and spend their 119 pounds at the supermarket, that pays the salaries of supermarket staff who then spend money on something else which in turn creates more jobs. Even to get the goods to the supermarket creates jobs for suppliers who in turn spend money. When that money is transferred to pensioners in Thailand there's zero benefit to the UK. All the economic benefit and multiplier effect goes to Thailand. Even when someone argues it saves health costs, those health costs in the UK contribute to keeping someone in a job. Drug manufacturers, hospital staff etc. Even the money that is wasted on say NHS bureaucracy will create a job for a bureaucrat who will in turn spend money and benefit the UK. I'm by no means a fan of bureaucrats but they're marginally better than having people unemployed. In most cases, once a pensioner leaves the UK and emmigrates they're no longer contributing anything to the UK. So they are simply an expense and generate no revenue when it comes to pension payments. So why keep increasing the amount that is drained from the UK?  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 18:10:53 GMT 7
^^ I agree.
The bottom line is - every UK pensioner that moved to Thailand knew the deal before they went.
And if they didn't - it's their own fault for not researching.
There's plenty of countries they could have went to where this was not an issue.
Live with your choices.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Nov 21, 2015 18:12:45 GMT 7
Have to been honest SP, I'm never convinced by the saving the government money argument for pensioners living in Thailand. Another key factor is that pensioners in Thailand are not spending their money in the UK. So all the money they receive from the UK for their pension is spent here and has no benefit to the UK economy or UK society. So, what about pensioners from the following countries? They don't spend their money in the UK, but get the inflation-linked rises. Where's the logic?: Austria Belgium Bulgaria Croatia Cyprus Czech Republic Denmark Estonia Finland France Germany Greece Hungary Iceland Ireland Italy Latvia Liechtenstein Lithuania Luxembourg Malta Netherlands Norway Poland Portugal Romania Slovakia Slovenia Spain Sweden Barbados Bermuda Bosnia-Herzegovina Jersey Guernsey the Isle of Man Israel Jamaica Kosovo Macedonia Mauritius Montenegro the Philippines Serbia Turkey USA Barbados Bermuda Bosnia-Herzegovina Jersey Guernsey the Isle of Man Israel Jamaica Kosovo Macedonia Mauritius Montenegro the Philippines Serbia Turkey USA |
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Post by Fletchsmile on Nov 21, 2015 18:18:32 GMT 7
Have to been honest SP, I'm never convinced by the saving the government money argument for pensioners living in Thailand. Another key factor is that pensioners in Thailand are not spending their money in the UK. So all the money they receive from the UK for their pension is spent here and has no benefit to the UK economy or UK society. So, what about pensioners from the following countries? They don't spend their money in the UK, but get the inflation-linked rises. Where's the logic?: Austria Belgium Bulgaria Croatia Cyprus Czech Republic Denmark Estonia Finland France Germany Greece Hungary Iceland Ireland Italy Latvia Liechtenstein Lithuania Luxembourg Malta Netherlands Norway Poland Portugal Romania Slovakia Slovenia Spain Sweden Barbados Bermuda Bosnia-Herzegovina Jersey Guernsey the Isle of Man Israel Jamaica Kosovo Macedonia Mauritius Montenegro the Philippines Serbia Turkey USA Barbados Bermuda Bosnia-Herzegovina Jersey Guernsey the Isle of Man Israel Jamaica Kosovo Macedonia Mauritius Montenegro the Philippines Serbia Turkey USA A lot of what the UK government does is a mess and often defies logic.  A mistake in one place though isn't a justification for a mistake in another. My view is that where there are reciprocal welfare related agreements in place (and some of those countries in the list have - but not all) then it's not too bad. Thailand doesn't have one. Where there isn't a reciprocal agreement in place then they should be treated the same. They get that wrong as well though, which adds frustrations as it's not even consistent. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 18:38:23 GMT 7
^^ That list only goes to prove that people had plenty of choice of where to retire to and effed it up. Oh, well.  |
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Post by Fletchsmile on Nov 21, 2015 19:05:11 GMT 7
I don't necessarily believe a pensioner living outside the UK should have to get the same as a pensioner in the UK. As Blether says it's their choice and the rules have been around for decades. For a lot of pensioners they don't actually need the extra either, when they have other income sources, so it would be better spent on pensioners and UK citizens who need it.
The one thing they should probably look at though is having a minimum pension for those living outside the UK, for those in circumstances that really need it. eg someone that's found himself trapped on a pension of 20 quid a week in Thailand and that's all he has. Doesn't necessarily need to be the full 119 pounds, but some form of study on a minimum should be in place for the ones who really need it. For those with additional pensions, income etc and enough to get by though, they make their choice.
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smokie36
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Post by smokie36 on Nov 21, 2015 19:59:30 GMT 7
That's about 25000 Baht a month. If you are not paying rent out of that its a liveable sum really....well existable really.
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smokie36
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Post by smokie36 on Nov 21, 2015 20:03:11 GMT 7
I don't necessarily believe a pensioner living outside the UK should have to get the same as a pensioner in the UK. As Blether says it's their choice and the rules have been around for decades. For a lot of pensioners they don't actually need the extra either, when they have other income sources, so it would be better spent on pensioners and UK citizens who need it. The one thing they should probably look at though is having a minimum pension for those living outside the UK, for those in circumstances that really need it. eg someone that's found himself trapped on a pension of 20 quid a week in Thailand and that's all he has. Doesn't necessarily need to be the full 119 pounds, but some form of study on a minimum should be in place for the ones who really need it. For those with additional pensions, income etc and enough to get by though, they make their choice. The truth is someone of pensionable age with a Uk passport pitches up ill and penniless at Heathrow they will be given a hospital bed until the y are well then automatically jump the housing ladder and into emergency housing until a granny flat is found for them....of course immediately they will receive full state pension as well. The Uk has no interest in those living abroad at all....plenty of problems with those living at home. |
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smokie36
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Post by smokie36 on Nov 21, 2015 20:11:56 GMT 7
You're the whiz kid here Fletch...how much cash would a UK pensioner who retired this year lose per month when he turns 80?
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siampolee
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Post by siampolee on Nov 21, 2015 20:47:59 GMT 7
Whilst I tend to agree with the comments made by Fletchsmile it would be an interesting question and a more interesting answer as to why my two other pensions, both linked to public service in the U.K and paid by the government are index linked and thus yearly increases are paid?
Sadly Blether a good many people who left the U.K. more than twenty years ago were not aware of or even informed as to the frozen pension situation and it would seem even now it is not common knowledge and there is very little reference to the matter in the relevant advice brochures.
Sadly smokie36 the truth of the matter is very different, there is a time qualification period before benefits etc are payable as well as housing and in fact you have to prove that you are returnibg to the U.K for good.
The Uk has no interest in those living abroad at all....plenty of problems with those living at home.
That should read, ''The Uk has no interest in those living abroad at all....plenty of problems currently with those wishing to go and live in the U.K. who have no real links or loyalty to the U.K.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 21:24:23 GMT 7
SP -
I have no problem with people campaigning for the pensions to be increased for Thai expats.
I do have a problem with people using phrases such as:
"Nothing more than a common fraud and state sponsored theft and blatant discrimination against one section of society."
This policy has been in place for fifty years plus. Ignorance is a poor defence.
And the elephant-in-the-room that UK expat pensioners always seem to overlook is:
It's a treaty between two countries.
So that means that Thailand has to come to the table with concessions.
Chances of that, much?
Or none?
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Post by Fletchsmile on Nov 21, 2015 21:51:54 GMT 7
Whilst I tend to agree with the comments made by Fletchsmile it would be an interesting question and a more interesting answer as to why my two other pensions, both linked to public service in the U.K and paid by the government are index linked and thus yearly increases are paid? One thing the UK government is good at is looking after it's own rather than the average Brit. It's the same with the double tax agreement between UK and Thailand. Pensions aren't generally covered by the DTA between UK and Thailand with one major exception - UK government pensions. By government it means those that have worked for the government in some way not state pensions. Just politicians looking after themselves as usual. If only Guy Fawkes had done better job |
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siampolee
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Post by siampolee on Nov 21, 2015 22:06:02 GMT 7
Blether.
So in your view all who paid in full are to be cheated?
Now in view of your recent flood damage claim for shop premises that you or your company paid the full premium to an assurance /insurance company to safeguard yourself from such disasters and the economic ramifications thereof.
If the insurance company said ''sorry policyholder but due to unseasonable inclement weather conditions (acts of god etc) we are cutting the payout of your claim you wouldn't consider that a somewhat deceitful dishonest action would you.
Those conditions and matters were very vague in their mention in all government handouts at the time.
Interesting to note that recently the discriminated against Gurkha's pensions were finally updated and brought into line with current values so why not the state pensioners as well?
The total cost being quoted would be no more the an the yearly expenses bill for both the House of Commons and the house of Lords as well as the Scottish Assembly set up and all the ministerial expenses in the aforementioned set ups
The whole scheme is as agreed by M.P.s who support the victims of frozen pensions nothing more than a blatant discrimination and a common fraud backed by the E.U,. at the behest of a recent Labour Government in going to the court within the E.U.set up.
As said my other pensions from state public service sectors are increased each year no problems.
What is the difference?
Perhaps I should ask our family trust to ensure the tax paid on its income should be held at the levels prevailing some 40 years ago when the trust was established due to my now being non resident in the U.K.
And please do not insinuate or implicitly imply that I or a good many others are or were ignorant of such matters.
Off to bed now so I shall wish you good evening and I do hope you sleep abed well
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A mistake in one place though isn't a justification for a mistake in another.
