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Post by Soutpeel on Mar 29, 2017 16:04:06 GMT 7
The issue is "tax residency" and typically a person can only be tax resident in one country at a time, there are however quite rare exceptions to this but they are outside of this discussion I think. So if a person is claiming to be tax resident in Thailand they cannot be tax resident in the UK also and at the same time, ditto the same for virtually ALL other countries, including the US. If that person is tax resident in say the UK, any deductions to Thai tax must be made on the UK tax return under the tax treaty. The problem I think is that the Thai tax people have been way too lax in handing out tax ID numbers and permitting people to file a tax return when they are simply only tourists. Ditto those Brits who live in Thailand full time but claim UK benefits and to to accomplish that they file a UK tax return each year. Well if you file a UK tax return you can't be tax resident in Thailand, it's as simple as that. I also think the above checking of tax residency is laying the ground work for future taxation of pension income by the Thai Revenue which is inevitable at some point. The above is not to suggest that an individual who is tax resident in Thailand may not have tax obligations in their home country as well because certainly many people will. I for example am a Brit. and I file a tax return for the US to reclaim tax paid on my US pension, I file a UK tax return to reclaim dividend interest on UK equities and I also file a Thai tax return to reclaim investment tax paid on fixed deposits - regardless of those things I am tax resident in Thailand and no where else. As for the delay in receiving tax refunds: The reason given at the outset by the Revenue for the delay was attributed to the introduction of the Prompt Pay system which requires a Thai ID number in order to participate, Prompt Pay is the new version of Baht Net or a BACS equivalent. I was told my cheque would be sent in 45 days time and indeed it arrived at my home exactly 45 days later. Others were not so fortunate: whilst many were told the same as me they were eventually asked to provide additional information to support their claim and were subsequently refused, there's several accounts of this happening and reported on TVF, most recently poster iClaudius ( a long term Thai resident Brit. and someone who is thought to maintain a convenience address in the UK) gave up because of the demand for more details that he cannot provide. Make of it all what you will, I don't wish to be alarmist but I've heard enough of the above from various sources to convince me the Thai Revenue is doing more checking than we are led to believe - if you were them you'd do the same also I imagine given the loss of tax through fraud each year which must be substantial. Although i understand what your getting at, i do disagree with the statement a person can typically only be tax resident in one country, for example one could be tax resident thailand, lets say they work, pay tax here, and have properties in the UK they rent out, in this case person is liable for tax in both countries, ie their Thai source and their UK source. Its not that hard to end up being resident for tax in 2 countries, certainly the way, the UK non residency test has been revised In countries like Aussie very very difficult to get non residence status if you maintain ties to Aussie even if you work in Thailand, an Aussie collegue who worked in Thailand for years had to jump hoops to get declared non res in Aussie, having literally to close all his Aussie bank accounts, sell his car and think he even sold his daughter the Aussie house for the sum of 1 dollar and he is very careful how many days a year he actually spends in Aussie, this all happened when Aussie changed their rules around offshore workers and 183 day rules One of key changes was the fact even if paid tax in Thailand on your Thai income, when you declared this to the Aussie tax man, if you hadnt paid enough tax under Aussie rules, the bastards wanted the difference off you, and the money wasnt even earned in Aussie |
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Mar 29, 2017 16:05:15 GMT 7
Not a regular bank statement, a specific set of details regarding each interest payment showing the tax element, the banks are used to providing them and it can run to several pages.
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Mar 29, 2017 16:21:37 GMT 7
The issue is "tax residency" and typically a person can only be tax resident in one country at a time, there are however quite rare exceptions to this but they are outside of this discussion I think. So if a person is claiming to be tax resident in Thailand they cannot be tax resident in the UK also and at the same time, ditto the same for virtually ALL other countries, including the US. If that person is tax resident in say the UK, any deductions to Thai tax must be made on the UK tax return under the tax treaty. The problem I think is that the Thai tax people have been way too lax in handing out tax ID numbers and permitting people to file a tax return when they are simply only tourists. Ditto those Brits who live in Thailand full time but claim UK benefits and to to accomplish that they file a UK tax return each year. Well if you file a UK tax return you can't be tax resident in Thailand, it's as simple as that. I also think the above checking of tax residency is laying the ground work for future taxation of pension income by the Thai Revenue which is inevitable at some point. The above is not to suggest that an individual who is tax resident in Thailand may not have tax obligations in their home country as well because certainly many people will. I for example am a Brit. and I file a tax return for the US to reclaim tax paid on my US pension, I file a UK tax return to reclaim dividend interest on UK equities and I also file a Thai tax return to reclaim investment tax paid on fixed deposits - regardless of those things I am tax resident in Thailand and no where else. As for the delay in receiving tax refunds: The reason given at the outset by the Revenue for the delay was attributed to the introduction of the Prompt Pay system which requires a Thai ID number in order to participate, Prompt Pay is the new version of Baht Net or a BACS equivalent. I was told my cheque would be sent in 45 days time and indeed it arrived at my home exactly 45 days later. Others were not so fortunate: whilst many were told the same as me they were eventually asked to provide additional information to support their claim and were subsequently refused, there's several accounts of this happening and reported on TVF, most recently poster iClaudius ( a long term Thai resident Brit. and someone who is thought to maintain a convenience address in the UK) gave up because of the demand for more details that he cannot provide. Make of it all what you will, I don't wish to be alarmist but I've heard enough of the above from various sources to convince me the Thai Revenue is doing more checking than we are led to believe - if you were them you'd do the same also I imagine given the loss of tax through fraud each year which must be substantial. Although i understand what your getting at, i do disagree with the statement a person can typically only be tax resident in one country, for example one could be tax resident thailand, lets say they work, pay tax here, and have properties in the UK they rent out, in this case person is liable for tax in both countries, ie their Thai source and their UK source. Its not that hard to end up being resident for tax in 2 countries, certainly the way, the UK non residency test has been revised In countries like Aussie very very difficult to get non residence status if you maintain ties to Aussie even if you work in Thailand, an Aussie collegue who worked in Thailand for years had to jump hoops to get declared non res in Aussie, having literally to close all his Aussie bank accounts, sell his car and think he even sold his daughter the Aussie house for the sum of 1 dollar and he is very careful how many days a year he actually spends in Aussie, this all happened when Aussie changed their rules around offshore workers and 183 day rules One of key changes was the fact even if paid tax in Thailand on your Thai income, when you declared this to the Aussie tax man, if you hadnt paid enough tax under Aussie rules, the bastards wanted the difference off you, and the money wasnt even earned in Aussie Being liable for tax in a particular country is not the same as being tax resident, as said earlier I file tax returns for three countries but I can only ever be tax resident in one of them, it is not hard to believe that many people owe tax in more than one country in the same tax year but that doesn't make them tax resident. And the residency rules for the UK do not now make a person automatically tax resident there unless they spend 180 days in the country, in which case they probably are UK tax resident anyway. It is possible to spend 90 days there plus have three additional ties and that would make you tax resident (after three years) but NOT if you are already tax resident in Thailand - the new UK tax residency rules are meant to clarify matters for a majority of people but they do not set hard and fast rules for everyone. One aspect that is frequently overlooked is how do the new rules apply to somebody who is already legitimately tax resident elsewhere and who is not trying to play the loopholes of the system. Lastly, under dual taxation treaties it is not unusual for people to pay additional tax in a second country, even though the money was not earned there. That arises because the tax rates vary from country to country hence if your income was taxed at 15% in Thailand and you filed in the UK under a tax treaty, another 5% would be due, to HMRC. |
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Mar 29, 2017 16:43:45 GMT 7
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Post by Fletchsmile on Mar 29, 2017 22:06:54 GMT 7
Just to clarify a bit on the few posts above:
- It's possible to be tax resident in more than one country. Though not that common.
- Paying tax/ being liable for tax in a country is not the same as being resident in the country for tax purposes.
e.g. Someone who is non-resident in UK may still be liable for tax on UK income
So the first question comes up. Are you resident or non-resident in the UK?
Then further questions for both residents and non-residents as to whether they have income that is taxable in the UK (which would be mainly UK sourced income if you are non-resident).
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Post by Fletchsmile on Mar 29, 2017 22:12:13 GMT 7
I'll see what they say tomorrow about refunds. Just done my tax for the year and (hopefully) am due a refund. Refunds used to be quicker if you do your tax online. Mine got messed up one year though which stopped me doing online so I've done manually since. Cheers Fletch  |
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MrToad
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Post by MrToad on Mar 29, 2017 22:31:16 GMT 7
The last few years i have had numerous tax issues and last year due to the incompetence of my previous employer i was sent a bill of 240,000 baht. Thankfully my accountant in my new company was able to sort this, despite the unhelpfulness of my previous company and it's pathetic German CEO (now fired), and it was reduced to 21000 baht.
I hope this year, i will be getting a rebate :-)
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Post by Soutpeel on Mar 30, 2017 7:51:54 GMT 7
The last few years i have had numerous tax issues and last year due to the incompetence of my previous employer i was sent a bill of 240,000 baht. Thankfully my accountant in my new company was able to sort this, despite the unhelpfulness of my previous company and it's pathetic German CEO (now fired), and it was reduced to 21000 baht. I hope this year, i will be getting a rebate :-) 15 years in Thailand never got a rebate but never had to put anymore in end of the tax year either  |
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Post by Fletchsmile on Mar 30, 2017 11:24:38 GMT 7
The last few years i have had numerous tax issues and last year due to the incompetence of my previous employer i was sent a bill of 240,000 baht. Thankfully my accountant in my new company was able to sort this, despite the unhelpfulness of my previous company and it's pathetic German CEO (now fired), and it was reduced to 21000 baht. I hope this year, i will be getting a rebate :-) 15 years in Thailand never got a rebate but never had to put anymore in end of the tax year either HR and accounting departments seem to err on the side of caution. They seem to prefer to overpay tax than to underpay. I don't think HR/Finance want to be responsible for originating any fines / penalties for underpayment . I remember one company underpaying throughout the year and then deducting the underpayment from my bonus. Was seriously p**sed off when I got less than thought  I suspect also that formally at least (excluding fraud and deliberate omissions) overpaying is more common than underpaying. A common reason being people leaving part way thru the year. You still get a full year allowances but the HR/finance department would only be accruing 1/12 per month. Last minute allowance claims being another. |
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Post by Fletchsmile on Mar 30, 2017 11:27:31 GMT 7
Went in this morning and did as usual. When I asked. They told me it would probably be May when I got my refund cheque. More a reflection of leaving it to the end of the period and depends on the timing and workload than anything.
They did ask if I had Promptpay and say Promptpay was quicker. But nothing about foreigners/delays etc.
Have to say the Revenue department I go to are very helpful and very pleasant.
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Mar 30, 2017 18:38:31 GMT 7
Went in this morning and did as usual. When I asked. They told me it would probably be May when I got my refund cheque. More a reflection of leaving it to the end of the period and depends on the timing and workload than anything. They did ask if I had Promptpay and say Promptpay was quicker. But nothing about foreigners/delays etc. Have to say the Revenue department I go to are very helpful and very pleasant. It sounds as though you received the same messages that all other foreigners did - PromptPay requires a Thai ID number and those refunds are processed quickly. So is it all about a new payments system implementation or is it something else, it all seems a bit odd to me but hey, each to their own. FWIW the people at my local tax office, Region 2, are just the nicest people to deal with, pleasant and helpful indeed. |
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Post by Fletchsmile on Jun 16, 2017 12:49:59 GMT 7
Got my refund on 10 June, which seems to be a bit longer than usual - at about 10 weeks.
That could be because I was reasonably late filing this year and/ or there were some adjustments made to the final calculation by them relating to my wife after submitted. A bit slower than usual but a pleasant process considering.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 12:56:56 GMT 7
My refund came through on May 22.
Little bit later than usual but as it's done by my company and I don't file it miself I had forgotten that I was due the refund.
A nice shock to the system for once.
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