chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Feb 22, 2017 12:35:00 GMT 7
Maybe useful to know that the Revenue Dept. is not making tax refunds to foreigners by cheque until the end of March at the earliest. It seems that PromptPay payments are being made to Thai nationals within three days but the Revenue people tell me PromptPay requires a Thai ID card to enrol plus not all banks have taken up the scheme yet. I was initially told the delay would be 45 days but this mornings visit to the "horses mouth" tells me end March at the earliest. What's it all about. dunno, maybe the two payment types can't be done in parallel, maybe it's a cash flow issue or maybe it's something else. Judging from the large number of foreigners who are now claiming tax refunds on bank savings interest, I'm certain not all of them are actually tax resident in Thailand hence some checking and some tightening would certainly be in order.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Feb 22, 2017 13:35:19 GMT 7
the Revenue people tell me PromptPay requires a Thai ID card to enrol plus not all banks have taken up the scheme yet. Only certain banks require a Thai ID card, Krung Sri being the obvious awkward one in this respect. Most banks are happy to provide PromptPay for all their customers. Can't think of any major bank that hasn't implemented PromptPay yet. The Revenue people are being economical with the truth.
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Feb 22, 2017 14:10:39 GMT 7
Hmm, so what's the real reason then, any guesses?
An older American friend was trying to persuade me yesterday that governement is broke, his anecdotal evidence for this was the number of boarded up/empty shops and the people he knows who are hard up, he's also heard the story about the Treasury Reserve Account (TRA) being low on funds and that added to his angst - his third reason for believing as he does is that new medical staff have been unpaid for many months. I tried to persuade him unsuccessfully that the TRA was historically low at this time of year and that government borrowings are quite low, I also said that FCY reserves are high at USD $179 bill, he wasn't convinced - one of us is wrong or perhaps we're both right! I should also add that he felt sure exports and tourism are both down, I told him that tourism in the North certainly doesn't seem to be so.
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smokie36
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Post by smokie36 on Mar 5, 2017 12:09:19 GMT 7
Hmm, so what's the real reason then, any guesses? An older American friend was trying to persuade me yesterday that governement is broke, his anecdotal evidence for this was the number of boarded up/empty shops and the people he knows who are hard up, he's also heard the story about the Treasury Reserve Account (TRA) being low on funds and that added to his angst - his third reason for believing as he does is that new medical staff have been unpaid for many months. I tried to persuade him unsuccessfully that the TRA was historically low at this time of year and that government borrowings are quite low, I also said that FCY reserves are high at USD $179 bill, he wasn't convinced - one of us is wrong or perhaps we're both right! I should also add that he felt sure exports and tourism are both down, I told him that tourism in the North certainly doesn't seem to be so. Seems pretty vibrant in Bangkok....and on my recent trip to CM I didn't notice much hardship.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 11:28:20 GMT 7
The recent announcement about mooted dramatic increases re alcohol duty should be an indicator as to the state of government finances.
As usual, we have the arcane argument about the wealth of the Thai government.
It's easy to be wealthy f you don't provide a welfare state worth talking about, among other things.
Imagine how rich the UK would be if it didn't have a welfare state.
And how poor the people would be.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Mar 6, 2017 12:55:10 GMT 7
Imagine how rich the UK would be if it didn't have a welfare state. And how poor the people would be. Perhaps some of those poor would actually get off their lazy behinds and get a job. Then they wouldn't be so poor. The UK welfare state is ridiculously generous for the unemployed (but not unemployable), with benefits set at such a level that its recipients can afford fancy electronics and still have enough left over to spend on copious quantities of illegal drugs and alcohol. (I write from personal knowledge.) A few days ago watched a documentary about a 5* hotel in London. 80% of the staff is foreign. Why aren't some of the 1.6 million unemployed in the UK fighting for those jobs? Oh, I know: too feckless.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 13:42:59 GMT 7
Heartless prik !
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Post by mangomoney on Mar 6, 2017 14:29:29 GMT 7
Thought this deserved its own thread for discussion, so have moved the posts and made one...
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mistermember
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Post by mistermember on Mar 6, 2017 15:56:24 GMT 7
Judging from the large number of foreigners who are now claiming tax refunds on bank savings interest Under what circumstances can you have your bank taxes refunded?
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Mar 28, 2017 18:37:12 GMT 7
Judging from the large number of foreigners who are now claiming tax refunds on bank savings interest Under what circumstances can you have your bank taxes refunded? If you are tax resident in Thailand you can file a tax return each year to reclaim tax paid on bank savings accounts, fixed and regular (15% is withheld at source), subject to the Thai Revenue limits on personal allowances which are currently in the order of 150k of tax free income per year. I'm pretty sure what the Thai Revenue is doing currently is looking at tax returns by foreigners to determine whether the person is actually tax resident or not and it seems many are not. Simply, if you spend more than 183 days here during each tax year and you are not regarded as tax resident in your home country, you are tax resident in Thailand - none of which prevents the UK from making you pay tax on income above and beyond the personal allowance and the US from claiming tax on whatever it is they want to tax citizens on, dual taxation agreements and tax treaties do however prevent double taxation, the issue the Thai Revenue is concerned about is 1) fraudulent returns by non-resident foriegners, and 2) ensuing tax is paid in the correct country, subject to any tax treaties that may exist.
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mistermember
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Post by mistermember on Mar 29, 2017 0:15:15 GMT 7
Under what circumstances can you have your bank taxes refunded? If you are tax resident in Thailand you can file a tax return each year to reclaim tax paid on bank savings accounts, fixed and regular (15% is withheld at source), subject to the Thai Revenue limits on personal allowances which are currently in the order of 150k of tax free income per year. I'm pretty sure what the Thai Revenue is doing currently is looking at tax returns by foreigners to determine whether the person is actually tax resident or not and it seems many are not. Simply, if you spend more than 183 days here during each tax year and you are not regarded as tax resident in your home country, you are tax resident in Thailand - none of which prevents the UK from making you pay tax on income above and beyond the personal allowance and the US from claiming tax on whatever it is they want to tax citizens on, dual taxation agreements and tax treaties do however prevent double taxation, the issue the Thai Revenue is concerned about is 1) fraudulent returns by non-resident foriegners, and 2) ensuing tax is paid in the correct country, subject to any tax treaties that may exist. Oh wow, really? Thanks much Chiangmai. I didn't know this. I have been a resident for many years and did not know I could claim the bank tax back. The tax office never asked me about it, either. Question- What's necessary to process the bank tax refund, please? Is it one extra form to fill out, or is it part of the regular Thai tax filing form? What kind of documentation do I need from the bank? Thank you again for any further details.
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Post by Soutpeel on Mar 29, 2017 6:47:38 GMT 7
Under what circumstances can you have your bank taxes refunded? If you are tax resident in Thailand you can file a tax return each year to reclaim tax paid on bank savings accounts, fixed and regular (15% is withheld at source), subject to the Thai Revenue limits on personal allowances which are currently in the order of 150k of tax free income per year. I'm pretty sure what the Thai Revenue is doing currently is looking at tax returns by foreigners to determine whether the person is actually tax resident or not and it seems many are not. Simply, if you spend more than 183 days here during each tax year and you are not regarded as tax resident in your home country, you are tax resident in Thailand - none of which prevents the UK from making you pay tax on income above and beyond the personal allowance and the US from claiming tax on whatever it is they want to tax citizens on, dual taxation agreements and tax treaties do however prevent double taxation, the issue the Thai Revenue is concerned about is 1) fraudulent returns by non-resident foriegners, and 2) ensuing tax is paid in the correct country, subject to any tax treaties that may exist. Just a few points When you refer to tax residency in home country in this post, your referring only to the UK, not all countries follow this route Just because one is 183 days in Thailand, doesnt mean you are non resident for tax in the UK, you also have to pass the "non-residency test" under UK tax law, you can be resident in Thailand 183 days plus and under certain circumstance still liable for UK income tax, one has to be very careful these days, the simple answer is, if you have no bank acccounts, properties, no ties and never visit the UK or if you do its less than 15 days a year, then yes 100% your non resident for tax Simple example i know of - British air line pilot flew in and out of Heathrow, his residency was in South Africa, and he had a flat to sleep over in near Heathrow - the UK tax man nailed his arse to the wall for full UK tax because of the flat To be honest i dont think the Thai taxman gives a rats about about resident foreigners who dont work in Thailand, its just too hard to police, i dont believe reason you state is the reason for these delays, its something more simple ie they have changed a computer system and now it will only accept Thai ID numbers or something silly like that If Thailand was serious about foreigners and taxation they would have signed upto the iinternational disclosure and data sharing agreements which they havent
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Mar 29, 2017 12:04:02 GMT 7
Go to your local tax office and ask them for a tax ID, it's a simple 15 minute process but they will want to see your passport and proof that you are tax resident.
Between 1 January and 31 March each year, ask your bank(s) for a statement of tax paid on your savings and fixed deposits.
Take the above to the tax office and the nice people there will help you complete a tax return, expect a cheque thereafter.
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chiangmai
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Post by chiangmai on Mar 29, 2017 12:24:33 GMT 7
The issue is "tax residency" and typically a person can only be tax resident in one country at a time, there are however quite rare exceptions to this but they are outside of this discussion I think.
So if a person is claiming to be tax resident in Thailand they cannot be tax resident in the UK also and at the same time, ditto the same for virtually ALL other countries, including the US. If that person is tax resident in say the UK, any deductions to Thai tax must be made on the UK tax return under the tax treaty.
The problem I think is that the Thai tax people have been way too lax in handing out tax ID numbers and permitting people to file a tax return when they are simply only tourists. Ditto those Brits who live in Thailand full time but claim UK benefits and to to accomplish that they file a UK tax return each year. Well if you file a UK tax return you can't be tax resident in Thailand, it's as simple as that. I also think the above checking of tax residency is laying the ground work for future taxation of pension income by the Thai Revenue which is inevitable at some point.
The above is not to suggest that an individual who is tax resident in Thailand may not have tax obligations in their home country as well because certainly many people will. I for example am a Brit. and I file a tax return for the US to reclaim tax paid on my US pension, I file a UK tax return to reclaim dividend interest on UK equities and I also file a Thai tax return to reclaim investment tax paid on fixed deposits - regardless of those things I am tax resident in Thailand and no where else.
As for the delay in receiving tax refunds:
The reason given at the outset by the Revenue for the delay was attributed to the introduction of the Prompt Pay system which requires a Thai ID number in order to participate, Prompt Pay is the new version of Baht Net or a BACS equivalent. I was told my cheque would be sent in 45 days time and indeed it arrived at my home exactly 45 days later. Others were not so fortunate: whilst many were told the same as me they were eventually asked to provide additional information to support their claim and were subsequently refused, there's several accounts of this happening and reported on TVF, most recently poster iClaudius ( a long term Thai resident Brit. and someone who is thought to maintain a convenience address in the UK) gave up because of the demand for more details that he cannot provide.
Make of it all what you will, I don't wish to be alarmist but I've heard enough of the above from various sources to convince me the Thai Revenue is doing more checking than we are led to believe - if you were them you'd do the same also I imagine given the loss of tax through fraud each year which must be substantial.
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mistermember
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Post by mistermember on Mar 29, 2017 15:41:51 GMT 7
Go to your local tax office and ask them for a tax ID, it's a simple 15 minute process but they will want to see your passport and proof that you are tax resident. Between 1 January and 31 March each year, ask your bank(s) for a statement of tax paid on your savings and fixed deposits. Take the above to the tax office and the nice people there will help you complete a tax return, expect a cheque thereafter. Ok, thank you. I already filed for this year, but I'll bring bank statements next time around.
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