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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2015 17:37:50 GMT 7
I don't know how to to write it in English - it sounds more like gree - en jai to me. ThaiguyinGlasgow is finding it tough to explain - he says it's similar to "feeling obligated," or "being in someone's debt."
He says both are not accurate - but enough to give me an idea of what he's talking about. I heard the same phrase last night between two Thais in a restaurant. How would you interpret it?
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buhi
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Post by buhi on Sept 28, 2015 18:42:10 GMT 7
I don't know how to to write it in English - it sounds more like gree - en jai to me. ThaiguyinGlasgow is finding it tough to explain - he says it's similar to "feeling obligated," or "being in someone's debt." He says both are not accurate - but enough to give me an idea of what he's talking about. I heard the same phrase last night between two Thais in a restaurant. How would you interpret it? You are semi correct, let it go. But deeper as always it is a face thingy. Altruism is virtually non existant in Thai culture, thus if I do a favour out of no reason, then the person favoured is obliged to you. Think feudalism and obligation. I often become unstuck by this; I act as a gentleman and offer to help, but it is misinterpreted as wanting something back. Sure this exists in Western culture, but when I offer favours to a lady, she , Western, knows I am either sincere or making a pass. These are subtltle nuances. Thai driving is the best example; in the UK to give way gives one a glow of being selfless, of being kind, of altruism. For Thai, it is a loss of face, an act of giving up superiority. I've got a bigger car (pickup) than you. I was crossing the road the other day, yes on foot, not much space between the oncoming cars; I did the usual hand out signal that I was about to cross, the inside lane car slowed down, no did not stop, perish the thought, and a taxi (love them) instead of slowing down, accelerated and swerveved around me. Gren Jai!
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buhi
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Post by buhi on Sept 28, 2015 19:05:01 GMT 7
Another example:
Sitting as usual having a beer at five pm, a friend, grandmother, of a toddler came by. We were chatting, small stuff.
The toddler was not well, a minor ailment, I asked if she had given her (can't remember the name, infant parecetomal) she had.
I know the whole family, her husband does eletrical odd jobs for me, her eldest daughter, mother of toddler, is a "friend" and yes I did advise her when she became stupidly pregnant. Her boyfriend is a father and lives with the family now.
Back to the beginning.
Toddler had a little tricycle, but was too ill to ride it home. Grandmother had shopping and was carrying the toddler, shopping and tricycle.
I took the tricycle and told her I would carry it back to their home.
She was shocked and perhaps about to lose face.
"Hey come on , it is me,".
She understood.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2015 19:53:59 GMT 7
Okay - very good - I understand better now.
Thanks Buhi
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buhi
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Post by buhi on Sept 28, 2015 20:27:14 GMT 7
Musical interlude (tongue in cheek) gren jai.
Am in a Tom Petty phase.
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buhi
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Post by buhi on Sept 28, 2015 20:31:02 GMT 7
Musical interlude (tongue in cheek) gren jai. Am in a Tom Petty phase. Yes that is Jeff Lynne and Ringo Starr!
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buhi
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Post by buhi on Sept 28, 2015 20:38:11 GMT 7
Bloody hell, I forgot George Harrison!
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buhi
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Post by buhi on Sept 28, 2015 21:24:32 GMT 7
Okay - very good - I understand better now. Thanks Buhi OK Jock, you owe me one!
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Post by Soutpeel on Sept 28, 2015 21:37:09 GMT 7
In English i guess you would explain it as being considerate
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Post by rgs2001uk on Sept 28, 2015 21:54:52 GMT 7
I don't know how to to write it in English - it sounds more like gree - en jai to me. ThaiguyinGlasgow is finding it tough to explain - he says it's similar to "feeling obligated," or "being in someone's debt." He says both are not accurate - but enough to give me an idea of what he's talking about. I heard the same phrase last night between two Thais in a restaurant. How would you interpret it? You are semi correct, let it go. But deeper as always it is a face thingy. Altruism is virtually non existant in Thai culture, thus if I do a favour out of no reason, then the person favoured is obliged to you. Think feudalism and obligation. I often become unstuck by this; I act as a gentleman and offer to help, but it is misinterpreted as wanting something back. Sure this exists in Western culture, but when I offer favours to a lady, she , Western, knows I am either sincere or making a pass. These are subtltle nuances. Thai driving is the best example; in the UK to give way gives one a glow of being selfless, of being kind, of altruism. For Thai, it is a loss of face, an act of giving up superiority. I've got a bigger car (pickup) than you. I was crossing the road the other day, yes on foot, not much space between the oncoming cars; I did the usual hand out signal that I was about to cross, the inside lane car slowed down, no did not stop, perish the thought, and a taxi (love them) instead of slowing down, accelerated and swerveved around me. Gren Jai! There is no direct translation. For me, its fear of the consequences of ones actions. Fear of offending someone higher up the pecking order of society and therefore having to deal with a percieved loss of face. The phrase is greng jai เกรงใจ Google translate gives the translation as thoughtful, but its more than that.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Sept 28, 2015 21:56:42 GMT 7
I don't know how to to write it in English - it sounds more like gree - en jai to me. ThaiguyinGlasgow is finding it tough to explain - he says it's similar to "feeling obligated," or "being in someone's debt." He says both are not accurate - but enough to give me an idea of what he's talking about. I heard the same phrase last night between two Thais in a restaurant. How would you interpret it? You are semi correct, let it go. But deeper as always it is a face thingy. Altruism is virtually non existant in Thai culture, thus if I do a favour out of no reason, then the person favoured is obliged to you.Think feudalism and obligation. I often become unstuck by this; I act as a gentleman and offer to help, but it is misinterpreted as wanting something back. Sure this exists in Western culture, but when I offer favours to a lady, she , Western, knows I am either sincere or making a pass. These are subtltle nuances. Thai driving is the best example; in the UK to give way gives one a glow of being selfless, of being kind, of altruism. For Thai, it is a loss of face, an act of giving up superiority. I've got a bigger car (pickup) than you. I was crossing the road the other day, yes on foot, not much space between the oncoming cars; I did the usual hand out signal that I was about to cross, the inside lane car slowed down, no did not stop, perish the thought, and a taxi (love them) instead of slowing down, accelerated and swerveved around me. Gren Jai! Sometimes referred to as bun khun, help me to help you, sorry dont have my eye glasses upstairs so cant be assed typing Thai.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Sept 28, 2015 22:00:01 GMT 7
Excellent read, something many farang visitors have never heard of, hence the cries of the PC brigade on other sites. www.thai-blogs.com/2009/03/11/last-bastion-of-the-orient/Not only found in Thailand, but all over Asia. Years ago we peons/peasants would have tugged out forelock and doffed our cap.
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buhi
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Post by buhi on Sept 28, 2015 22:45:14 GMT 7
Excellent read, something many farang visitors have never heard of, hence the cries of the PC brigade on other sites. www.thai-blogs.com/2009/03/11/last-bastion-of-the-orient/Not only found in Thailand, but all over Asia. Years ago we peons/peasants would have tugged out forelock and doffed our cap. Excellent article. I think you have been here long enough to have sussed this out without in depth historical (Thai) knowledge; feudalism. Us farangs, are held with a strange deference;(Those of us that work here in high status occupations, not the Pattaya beer guts!) Thai know we come from a "superior society" power wise, , world influence, but cannot accept that. I get it! Then I have people bow to me and think what the shit, I am your neighbour, oh yes the farang, but twenty years! On the same page I hope
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Post by rgs2001uk on Sept 28, 2015 22:56:02 GMT 7
Buhi, try explaing to some one why น้ำใจ Nam jai goes down the way but เกรงใจ Greng jai goes up the way.
Greng jai, thats why kids cannot question teachers, why elders have to be listened to and never called on to expalain, even though every just says oh lor, the reason why a subordinate cant question his supervisor, etc etc.
I watched an excellent article on Russia during the time of The Cold War, and why they screwed up.
Peasant girl working on a production line, moulding soles onto soldiers boots, the machine was set up wrongly, the moulded sole was going back to front, she couldnt question it, the machine had decided the State knew best, you are a peon, you are paid to do your job, not to think or question your superiors.
Greng jai, also used as a kop out.
Sat drinking with Somchai, he has had a few and knows he should go home, his mrs has phoned him three times already, your food is on the table, please come home. Somchai wants to carry on drinking, so he tells his mrs he has to greng jai someone higher up the pecking order, his mrs DARENT question it, even though she knows he will beat shit out of her for his food being cold when he gets home.
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buhi
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Post by buhi on Sept 28, 2015 23:36:51 GMT 7
Long story.
Fact or fiction.
Well, could not make it up.
Television !
Endorsement by the King.
Worked in the poorest areas of Bangkok.
Then in the most prestigious school in Bangkok.
Was Oak, yes the Shinawatra one's tutour.
Time to shut up!
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