AyG
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Post by AyG on Jan 31, 2016 10:21:04 GMT 7
For one the 'refugees' are not allowed to work. That would be illegal. They are allowed to work in any country I know of. What country are you talking about where they can't work? Why else does Germany want them? Almost all "asylum seekers" are certainly not allowed to work legally in the UK. They live at the expense of the British tax payer. Only either after they are granted asylum or they have waited 12 months for a decision on their asylum application can they work. In Germany they can't work for the first 3 months, and only then work if they are not in a "reception centre". In France they have to wait one year, Italy 6 months. In contrast, in Greece they can start work immediately (if they are employable), whilst in Sweden they only have to wait one day.. researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN01908www.asylumineurope.org/comparator
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rubl
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Post by rubl on Jan 31, 2016 14:43:18 GMT 7
Of course IF a refugee can legally work in the country he has requested asylum, he still needs to be employed legally, pay tax, and clear whatever else in paperwork a 'developed' country is good in. Self-employment may see even higher hurdles and a refugee has no money, will not easily get a loan, etc., etc., etc.
So, maybe in theory, but in practise ?
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Jan 31, 2016 14:55:49 GMT 7
Of course IF a refugee can legally work in the country he has requested asylum, he still needs to be employed legally, pay tax, and clear whatever else in paperwork a 'developed' country is good in. Self-employment may see even higher hurdles and a refugee has no money, will not easily get a loan, etc., etc., etc. So, maybe in theory, but in practise ? Surely, far more important are lack of ability to speak the local lingo, very little education, mediaeval and misogynistic attitudes, rape-y tendencies, a need to take time off to pray 5 times a day, a hatred of the local culture and an unwillingness to adapt, demands for special food in the works canteen, in fact, little short of complete unemployability. Incidentally, an adherent Muslim can't take a loan. His/her religion forbids paying interest.
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rubl
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Post by rubl on Jan 31, 2016 15:00:11 GMT 7
Of course IF a refugee can legally work in the country he has requested asylum, he still needs to be employed legally, pay tax, and clear whatever else in paperwork a 'developed' country is good in. Self-employment may see even higher hurdles and a refugee has no money, will not easily get a loan, etc., etc., etc. So, maybe in theory, but in practise ? Surely, far more important are lack of ability to speak the local lingo, very little education, mediaeval and misogynistic attitudes, rape-y tendencies, a need to take time off to pray 5 times a day, a hatred of the local culture and an unwillingness to adapt, demands for special food in the works canteen, in fact, little short of complete unemployability. Incidentally, an adherent Muslim can't take a loan. His/her religion forbids paying interest. May I remind you that not all refugees are of the Muslim faith? As for the rest, you're indeed giving the right reasons why no one may be willing to employ him. That is assuming we talk about 'legal' work, minimum wages applied, health insurance, etc., etc., etc.
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cmk
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Post by cmk on Jan 31, 2016 17:05:51 GMT 7
Of course IF a refugee can legally work in the country he has requested asylum, he still needs to be employed legally, pay tax, and clear whatever else in paperwork a 'developed' country is good in. Self-employment may see even higher hurdles and a refugee has no money, will not easily get a loan, etc., etc., etc. So, maybe in theory, but in practise ? In the US they go to the nearest restaurant and get a job as a dishwasher or a taxi driver. I doubt there are any legal dishwashers or fruit pickers living in the USA. Since there are 800 different languages spoken in NYC alone it can't be much of a problem.
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cmk
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Post by cmk on Jan 31, 2016 17:53:17 GMT 7
Surely, far more important are lack of ability to speak the local lingo, very little education, mediaeval and misogynistic attitudes, rape-y tendencies, a need to take time off to pray 5 times a day, a hatred of the local culture and an unwillingness to adapt, demands for special food in the works canteen, in fact, little short of complete unemployability. Incidentally, an adherent Muslim can't take a loan. His/her religion forbids paying interest. May I remind you that not all refugees are of the Muslim faith? As for the rest, you're indeed giving the right reasons why no one may be willing to employ him. That is assuming we talk about 'legal' work, minimum wages applied, health insurance, etc., etc., etc. Since the Paris terror attacks on November 13, the State Department has admitted 237 Syrian refugees into the United States – 236 Sunni Muslims and one Christian. cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/04-christian-syrian-refugees-admitted-paris-attacks-include-236
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rubl
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Post by rubl on Jan 31, 2016 20:40:17 GMT 7
Of course IF a refugee can legally work in the country he has requested asylum, he still needs to be employed legally, pay tax, and clear whatever else in paperwork a 'developed' country is good in. Self-employment may see even higher hurdles and a refugee has no money, will not easily get a loan, etc., etc., etc. So, maybe in theory, but in practise ? In the US they go to the nearest restaurant and get a job as a dishwasher or a taxi driver. I doubt there are any legal dishwashers or fruit pickers living in the USA. Since there are 800 different languages spoken in NYC alone it can't be much of a problem. It's not really a matter of whether or not it's easy, but if it's legal. Maybe at times things are a bit more regulated in Europe.
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rubl
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Post by rubl on Jan 31, 2016 20:46:10 GMT 7
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cmk
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Post by cmk on Jan 31, 2016 21:41:33 GMT 7
In the US they go to the nearest restaurant and get a job as a dishwasher or a taxi driver. I doubt there are any legal dishwashers or fruit pickers living in the USA. Since there are 800 different languages spoken in NYC alone it can't be much of a problem. It's not really a matter of whether or not it's easy, but if it's legal. Maybe at times things are a bit more regulated in Europe. It's not really a matter of whether it is legal or not but if it's easy. I don't know about dishwashers in Europe but in America there hasn't been a legal dishwasher since Texas became a State in 1845 and the last grape picked by an American happened in the film, "Grapes of Wrath." All the clothes made in NYC's garment district might as well have been made by Chinese convicts in China because the same people are making them in NY. America is the world's largest economy and also the world's largest grey market economy. The entire population of Thailand could find jobs in a couple of weeks.
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rubl
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Post by rubl on Jan 31, 2016 23:18:46 GMT 7
It's not really a matter of whether or not it's easy, but if it's legal. Maybe at times things are a bit more regulated in Europe. It's not really a matter of whether it is legal or not but if it's easy. I don't know about dishwashers in Europe but in America there hasn't been a legal dishwasher since Texas became a State in 1845 and the last grape picked by an American happened in the film, "Grapes of Wrath." All the clothes made in NYC's garment district might as well have been made by Chinese convicts in China because the same people are making them in NY. America is the world's largest economy and also the world's largest grey market economy. The entire population of Thailand could find jobs in a couple of weeks. Still the Wild West over there ? Europe is somewhat more organised. In the Netherlands most dishwashers are machines and we have people legally employed to fill them with plates. Minimum wages, minimum youth wages, days off for schooling if real young (like 16 or 17). Things like that.
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cmk
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Post by cmk on Feb 1, 2016 7:18:07 GMT 7
It's not really a matter of whether it is legal or not but if it's easy. I don't know about dishwashers in Europe but in America there hasn't been a legal dishwasher since Texas became a State in 1845 and the last grape picked by an American happened in the film, "Grapes of Wrath." All the clothes made in NYC's garment district might as well have been made by Chinese convicts in China because the same people are making them in NY. America is the world's largest economy and also the world's largest grey market economy. The entire population of Thailand could find jobs in a couple of weeks. Still the Wild West over there ? Europe is somewhat more organised. In the Netherlands most dishwashers are machines and we have people legally employed to fill them with plates. Minimum wages, minimum youth wages, days off for schooling if real young (like 16 or 17). Things like that. Europe more organized? Sure it is. Alves doesn't speak Dutch and his English is very poor, yet he had no trouble finding work in the Netherlands. "The friend who lived here knew another Brazilian girl who was about to return. She had a cleaning job for three hours a week which I could buy from her for 120 euros." And so Alves landed his first, 10 euro per hour, job in Amsterdam. The risk of getting caught is slim," explained one Amsterdam restaurant-owner who asked not to be named citing fear of the authorities. "The labour costs are low and illegal aliens work hard." He said he occasionally had illegal aliens working in his kitchen. "Right now, I am looking for a new dishwasher. I will hire anyone who makes a reliable impression and is willing to work hard for little pay. That can be a either a student or an illegal alien." In his restaurant, the illegal aliens are not treated differently, he said. In fact their net pay is a bit higher than that of legal residents. "Other dishwashers make minimum wage, but because of all the taxes they cost me more," the restaurant owner explained. He is not the only one willing to employ illegal aliens. "Think about all those who have a Ghanaian or Brazilian cleaning lady. They are all here illegaly," he said. vorige.nrc.nl//international/Features/article2444283.ece/Being_illegal_is_easy_in_the_Netherlands
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rubl
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Post by rubl on Feb 1, 2016 11:29:09 GMT 7
Still the Wild West over there ? Europe is somewhat more organised. In the Netherlands most dishwashers are machines and we have people legally employed to fill them with plates. Minimum wages, minimum youth wages, days off for schooling if real young (like 16 or 17). Things like that. Europe more organized? Sure it is. Alves doesn't speak Dutch and his English is very poor, yet he had no trouble finding work in the Netherlands. "The friend who lived here knew another Brazilian girl who was about to return. She had a cleaning job for three hours a week which I could buy from her for 120 euros." And so Alves landed his first, 10 euro per hour, job in Amsterdam. The risk of getting caught is slim," explained one Amsterdam restaurant-owner who asked not to be named citing fear of the authorities. "The labour costs are low and illegal aliens work hard." He said he occasionally had illegal aliens working in his kitchen. "Right now, I am looking for a new dishwasher. I will hire anyone who makes a reliable impression and is willing to work hard for little pay. That can be a either a student or an illegal alien." In his restaurant, the illegal aliens are not treated differently, he said. In fact their net pay is a bit higher than that of legal residents. "Other dishwashers make minimum wage, but because of all the taxes they cost me more," the restaurant owner explained. He is not the only one willing to employ illegal aliens. "Think about all those who have a Ghanaian or Brazilian cleaning lady. They are all here illegaly," he said. vorige.nrc.nl//international/Features/article2444283.ece/Being_illegal_is_easy_in_the_NetherlandsThe story also has "I managed to stay out of police hands." "Despite Dutch and European efforts to root out illegal aliens, it is relatively simple to live underground." "Under Dutch law, police officers can ask aliens who they suspect may be here illegally for identification. Alves: "I know that if I am ever stopped for anything, I will be on the next flight to Brazil. That's why I make sure the lights on my bike work and I never run a red light."" " An EU 'return directive' to be implemented in December 2010, will make it easier to deport and ban people from the European Union entirely." Now fast forward SIX years (the article is from December 2009) and things have changed in the sense of laws being enforced more and more. With every new wave of refugees, every new terror attack (even if totally unrelated) the call for strict law enforcement is growing. I guess even in the USA you see that happening, Homeland Security and NSA activities and so?
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Feb 1, 2016 12:04:41 GMT 7
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wildoats
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Post by wildoats on Feb 4, 2016 21:41:04 GMT 7
Now, I'm not making a political comment by showing this. I just found it interesting that a City, close to the population of Chiang Mai (correct me if I'm wrong), exists in the desert in a way this place does. Jordan's Zaatari refugee camp from the air BBC News for more detail and associated commentary.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Feb 4, 2016 22:48:39 GMT 7
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