|
Post by Soutpeel on Jan 4, 2017 14:03:55 GMT 7
As a teacher in England some days I would be working up until ten at night. The work and the salary were not connected in my thinking. I had to do what needed to be done. If I needed to phone someone (the days before e mails) to get some information, I did. Likewise I received calls at home, work related. In Thailand, certainly e mails coming in and out at all hours. Being up to date with changes in plans for the next day vital. No good turning up in the morning to discover that arrangements had changed and all those plans were useless, as I was to be teaching a different class. Agreed, this French ruling is crazy. Addition: I was a float teacher, most often covering for the class teacher's preparation time. A luxury I might add I never had in England. If a teacher called in sick , then those arrangements changed. The sick teacher, if still conscious, would e mail me and give an update as to where the class were at and the relevant lesson plans. All lesson plans had to be in place a week in advance and modified daily. If you are professional, whether a lowly worker or higher up; the advantages of e mail updates out weigh the dis advantages. I personally dont have a problem with what the froggies are doing, what used to happen in the past, and it maybe still true in some companies, people would be dedicated and put the extra hours in, the phone calls and the emails, and it was a give and take thing from both sides What had happened in the MNC/coporate world over the last 20 years, its now expected, and people who are not prepared to do it are labelled disloyal and not committed to the job etc even though they are putting in the contractually required hours per week, its for the most part because you have gangs or moronic MBA " managers" who couldnt manage their way out of paper bag In the past I used to be one of those people who would sit up all hours answering emails, taking phone calls over week ends etc and was getting the p**s taken, so now its only what i am contracted to do...no more, no less
|
|
me
Crazy Mango Extraordinaire
Posts: 6,342
Likes: 3,980
|
Post by me on Jan 4, 2017 15:29:47 GMT 7
As a teacher in England some days I would be working up until ten at night. The work and the salary were not connected in my thinking. I had to do what needed to be done. If I needed to phone someone (the days before e mails) to get some information, I did. Likewise I received calls at home, work related. In Thailand, certainly e mails coming in and out at all hours. Being up to date with changes in plans for the next day vital. No good turning up in the morning to discover that arrangements had changed and all those plans were useless, as I was to be teaching a different class. Agreed, this French ruling is crazy. Addition: I was a float teacher, most often covering for the class teacher's preparation time. A luxury I might add I never had in England. If a teacher called in sick , then those arrangements changed. The sick teacher, if still conscious, would e mail me and give an update as to where the class were at and the relevant lesson plans. All lesson plans had to be in place a week in advance and modified daily. If you are professional, whether a lowly worker or higher up; the advantages of e mail updates out weigh the dis advantages. I personally dont have a problem with what the froggies are doing, what used to happen in the past, and it maybe still true in some companies, people would be dedicated and put the extra hours in, the phone calls and the emails, and it was a give and take thing from both sides What had happened in the MNC/coporate world over the last 20 years, its now expected, and people who are not prepared to do it are labelled disloyal and not committed to the job etc even though they are putting in the contractually required hours per week, its for the most part because you have gangs or moronic MBA " managers" who couldnt manage their way out of paper bag In the past I used to be one of those people who would sit up all hours answering emails, taking phone calls over week ends etc and was getting the p**s taken, so now its only what i am contracted to do...no more, no less What I do not like is all these people using my place as an office......You get something done it is an hourly rate. Every 10 minutes.....phone....down ladder...answaaer phone...make two calls... up ladder ..down to get the brush you forgot..up ladder and all on my bloody time.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 16:46:38 GMT 7
I personally dont have a problem with what the froggies are doing, what used to happen in the past, and it maybe still true in some companies, people would be dedicated and put the extra hours in, the phone calls and the emails, and it was a give and take thing from both sides What had happened in the MNC/coporate world over the last 20 years, its now expected, and people who are not prepared to do it are labelled disloyal and not committed to the job etc even though they are putting in the contractually required hours per week, its for the most part because you have gangs or moronic MBA " managers" who couldnt manage their way out of paper bag In the past I used to be one of those people who would sit up all hours answering emails, taking phone calls over week ends etc and was getting the p**s taken, so now its only what i am contracted to do...no more, no less What I do not like is all these people using my place as an office......You get something done it is an hourly rate. Every 10 minutes.....phone....down ladder...answaaer phone...make two calls... up ladder ..down to get the brush you forgot..up ladder and all on my bloody time. We don't charge jobs out at an hourly rate. We quote the fitting and whether it takes and hour or four hours, it costs the customer the same.
|
|
buhi
Crazy Mango Extraordinaire
Posts: 4,846
Likes: 1,431
|
Post by buhi on Jan 4, 2017 18:47:44 GMT 7
As a teacher in England some days I would be working up until ten at night. The work and the salary were not connected in my thinking. I had to do what needed to be done. If I needed to phone someone (the days before e mails) to get some information, I did. Likewise I received calls at home, work related. In Thailand, certainly e mails coming in and out at all hours. Being up to date with changes in plans for the next day vital. No good turning up in the morning to discover that arrangements had changed and all those plans were useless, as I was to be teaching a different class. Agreed, this French ruling is crazy. Addition: I was a float teacher, most often covering for the class teacher's preparation time. A luxury I might add I never had in England. If a teacher called in sick , then those arrangements changed. The sick teacher, if still conscious, would e mail me and give an update as to where the class were at and the relevant lesson plans. All lesson plans had to be in place a week in advance and modified daily. If you are professional, whether a lowly worker or higher up; the advantages of e mail updates out weigh the dis advantages. I personally dont have a problem with what the froggies are doing, what used to happen in the past, and it maybe still true in some companies, people would be dedicated and put the extra hours in, the phone calls and the emails, and it was a give and take thing from both sides What had happened in the MNC/coporate world over the last 20 years, its now expected, and people who are not prepared to do it are labelled disloyal and not committed to the job etc even though they are putting in the contractually required hours per week, its for the most part because you have gangs or moronic MBA " managers" who couldnt manage their way out of paper bag In the past I used to be one of those people who would sit up all hours answering emails, taking phone calls over week ends etc and was getting the p**s taken, so now its only what i am contracted to do...no more, no less A case of one size does not fit all. A blanket rule that does not apply to all circumstances. Take the emergency medical situation. An out of hours e mail to a specialist. Phone call, same, but more intrusive. I made my point for my profession. Things change rapidly and it is best to be informed. If action is required to solve a problem, then so be it. There are many different professions and for some e mail updates and replies are essential and not a liberty.
|
|
MrToad
Vigilante
Posts: 1,968
Likes: 1,688
|
Post by MrToad on Jan 4, 2017 19:06:12 GMT 7
Just because an email gets sent out after working hours, doesnt mean the person has to read it. We work in a 24/7 industry, but i dont expect my employees to be awake reading emails 24/7
Little time for French employment laws, lazy bunch of strikers
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 19:25:55 GMT 7
Just because an email gets sent out after working hours, doesnt mean the person has to read it. We work in a 24/7 industry, but i dont expect my employees to be awake reading emails 24/7 Little time for French employment laws, lazy bunch of strikers I have a long list of more colourful descriptions of those snail-eating dagoes if you ever need any Toady. I had a few opportunities to use them on arrogant French twats when I was staying at my hotel in Hanoi. I stayed at the one hotel there, on four occasions, for a total of two months. The nasty little shits thought they still had power over the Vietnamese, used to treat the hotel staff very badly, talk to them rudely. I used to love telling them what I thought of them.
|
|
|
Post by Soutpeel on Jan 4, 2017 20:03:54 GMT 7
I personally dont have a problem with what the froggies are doing, what used to happen in the past, and it maybe still true in some companies, people would be dedicated and put the extra hours in, the phone calls and the emails, and it was a give and take thing from both sides What had happened in the MNC/coporate world over the last 20 years, its now expected, and people who are not prepared to do it are labelled disloyal and not committed to the job etc even though they are putting in the contractually required hours per week, its for the most part because you have gangs or moronic MBA " managers" who couldnt manage their way out of paper bag In the past I used to be one of those people who would sit up all hours answering emails, taking phone calls over week ends etc and was getting the p**s taken, so now its only what i am contracted to do...no more, no less A case of one size does not fit all. A blanket rule that does not apply to all circumstances. Take the emergency medical situation. An out of hours e mail to a specialist. Phone call, same, but more intrusive. I made my point for my profession. Things change rapidly and it is best to be informed. If action is required to solve a problem, then so be it. There are many different professions and for some e mail updates and replies are essential and not a liberty. Of course not, but typically in emergency cases there is a designated person who is on standby and is compensated for this duty, done it myself in the old days carrying the fking pager and not allowed to have a beer on my 1 weekend a month, but was paid for the time and there was a 98% chance you wouldnt get a page, so in essence you were on full pay sitting at home Think the purpose of this law is to stop companies taking the p*ss, not prohibiting communications in energency cases or similar
|
|
|
Post by Soutpeel on Jan 4, 2017 20:08:58 GMT 7
Just because an email gets sent out after working hours, doesnt mean the person has to read it. We work in a 24/7 industry, but i dont expect my employees to be awake reading emails 24/7 Little time for French employment laws, lazy bunch of strikers I have a long list of more colourful descriptions of those snail-eating dagoes if you ever need any Toady. I had a few opportunities to use them on arrogant French twats when I was staying at my hotel in Hanoi. I stayed at the one hotel there, on four occasions, for a total of two months. The nasty little shits thought they still had power over the Vietnamese, used to treat the hotel staff very badly, talk to them rudely. I used to love telling them what I thought of them. I like garlic eating surrender monkeys myself
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 20:12:37 GMT 7
Not bad ! Mind if I add that to my repertoire ?
|
|
|
Post by Soutpeel on Jan 4, 2017 20:42:30 GMT 7
Not bad ! Mind if I add that to my repertoire ? Help yourself...its yours...
|
|
|
Post by rgs2001uk on Jan 4, 2017 22:17:55 GMT 7
There is a big difference between working hard for good money and being looked after, and being overworked and taken advantage of. This bs about stopping work emails after a certain time will bite them on the arse one day and cost them a lot of money. Maybe the wowsers in the French government will bail them out. Someone once asked - "Why is it the hard workers have all the good luck" ? Correct. It has to be a fair relationship. Win-win. The only reason I can travel so much is because I pour resources into my employees. And they keep the money churning. Fair deal. As one who has been on both sides, the carrot beats the big stick every day of the week. Any manager worth his salt will know his employees and what motivates them, what works for one wont work for another, know your employees and motivates them, the rest is plain sailing.
|
|
|
Post by rgs2001uk on Jan 4, 2017 22:22:45 GMT 7
As a teacher in England some days I would be working up until ten at night. The work and the salary were not connected in my thinking. I had to do what needed to be done. If I needed to phone someone (the days before e mails) to get some information, I did. Likewise I received calls at home, work related. In Thailand, certainly e mails coming in and out at all hours. Being up to date with changes in plans for the next day vital. No good turning up in the morning to discover that arrangements had changed and all those plans were useless, as I was to be teaching a different class. Agreed, this French ruling is crazy. Addition: I was a float teacher, most often covering for the class teacher's preparation time. A luxury I might add I never had in England. If a teacher called in sick , then those arrangements changed. The sick teacher, if still conscious, would e mail me and give an update as to where the class were at and the relevant lesson plans. All lesson plans had to be in place a week in advance and modified daily. If you are professional, whether a lowly worker or higher up; the advantages of e mail updates out weigh the dis advantages. I personally dont have a problem with what the froggies are doing, what used to happen in the past, and it maybe still true in some companies, people would be dedicated and put the extra hours in, the phone calls and the emails, and it was a give and take thing from both sides What had happened in the MNC/coporate world over the last 20 years, its now expected, and people who are not prepared to do it are labelled disloyal and not committed to the job etc even though they are putting in the contractually required hours per week, its for the most part because you have gangs or moronic MBA " managers" who couldnt manage their way out of paper bag In the past I used to be one of those people who would sit up all hours answering emails, taking phone calls over week ends etc and was getting the p**s taken, so now its only what i am contracted to do...no more, no lessWell said, not in my contract not in my TOR, aint doing it, learned along time ago, do someone elses job once, its now your job. Dont forget, these bastids are paying you the bare minimum they think they can get away with, and in some cases even less, everyone is shoit scared of the Flippers or Indians taking there job and are now working for money they wouldnt get out of bed for a few years ago.
|
|
|
Post by rgs2001uk on Jan 4, 2017 23:02:37 GMT 7
PS, not mentioned above, as much as I have no time for these HR or HSE pricks, what p**ses me off even more are the company fossils and dinosaurs who are promoted way above their pay grade and competance level a few years before they retire, just so they can pick up a bigger company pension.
Good old Ben, been running the tool store for the last 30 years, best we promote him, the kant couldnt run a bath, never mind, the mugs will carry him.
|
|
buhi
Crazy Mango Extraordinaire
Posts: 4,846
Likes: 1,431
|
Post by buhi on Jan 4, 2017 23:18:04 GMT 7
PS, not mentioned above, as much as I have no time for these HR or HSE pricks, what p**ses me off even more are the company fossils and dinosaurs who are promoted way above their pay grade and competance level a few years before they retire, just so they can pick up a bigger company pension. Good old Ben, been running the tool store for the last 30 years, best we promote him, the kant couldnt run a bath, never mind, the mugs will carry him. Choice, work for rgs, soutpeel or bleth? Easy, bleth. Work with commitment and be respected.
|
|
buhi
Crazy Mango Extraordinaire
Posts: 4,846
Likes: 1,431
|
Post by buhi on Jan 4, 2017 23:35:37 GMT 7
I do not come from the business,entrepreneurial world, but have mostly been at the top, in a management position.Lead by example and expect the highest standards. When I saw failings, I helped by giving advice.Failed to take my advice, then sorry, but you had your chance and you have failed. I can be very hard too. Same other way around. I work for you, do more than any could expect, but you,failed me, I leave. Works both ways.
|
|