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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 14:30:36 GMT 7
It is not unreasonable to ask a British national if THEY can support their foreign spouse without recourse to welfare. It is the responsibility of the British national, not the foreigner. You describe the law. You don't describe justice. It should be a matter of whether the couple can support themselves - not whether the British national can support his or her, say, multimillionaire spouse. It would be a trivial matter legally to preclude the foreign spouse from receiving any welfare benefits. It would also be a trivial matter to give the couple a trial period, say a year, for the couple to prove they can between themselves earn the requisite GBP 18,600/year. The regulations as they stand simply defy any rational sense of fairness or rationality. Why, for example, are hundreds of thousands of Eastern Europeans with no connection to the country allowed to come to the UK to live on benefits and the proceeds of crime, but British citizens can't bring in their cherished partner? It's a nonsense. For that matter, what about all the economic migrants from Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia and Sudan? Why do they have a greater right to live in the UK than the South African engineer married to a UK citizen? I'm pretty damned certain which of those will earn the most, take least from the state, pay the most tax, and contribute most to society - and it's not the economic migrants. Har har, your delusion is astounding. A one year trial period?  Go ask British immigration what it's like trying to remove people from the country. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 14:34:50 GMT 7
The problem with 'trivial' matters is that they are a. not trivial and b. subjective. That means those with the 'right' connections could possibly 'influence' the outcome. Black vs. White as starting point makes sense. AyG is perfectly aware that human rights and immigration lawyers would go pouring all over this one year trial period idea. It would be a legal nightmare evicting people who failed to comply. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 14:40:46 GMT 7
And hey, I get it. I understand it's emotive.
However the alternative to having immigration rules is to have unfettered immigration.
SP and AyG are long on record objecting to that.
What they want to do is decide for themselves who should be entitled to enter the country.
They want to be immigration officers.
And call us British residents arrogant for objecting to expats thinking they have the right to import foreigners into the UK.
I KNOW WHERE THE ARROGANCE LIES HERE, AND IT AIN'T ME.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Feb 25, 2017 15:16:03 GMT 7
You describe the law. You don't describe justice. It should be a matter of whether the couple can support themselves - not whether the British national can support his or her, say, multimillionaire spouse. It would be a trivial matter legally to preclude the foreign spouse from receiving any welfare benefits. It would also be a trivial matter to give the couple a trial period, say a year, for the couple to prove they can between themselves earn the requisite GBP 18,600/year. The regulations as they stand simply defy any rational sense of fairness or rationality. Why, for example, are hundreds of thousands of Eastern Europeans with no connection to the country allowed to come to the UK to live on benefits and the proceeds of crime, but British citizens can't bring in their cherished partner? It's a nonsense. For that matter, what about all the economic migrants from Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia and Sudan? Why do they have a greater right to live in the UK than the South African engineer married to a UK citizen? I'm pretty damned certain which of those will earn the most, take least from the state, pay the most tax, and contribute most to society - and it's not the economic migrants. Har har, your delusion is astounding. A one year trial period? Go ask British immigration what it's like trying to remove people from the country. It's a lack of will that stops illegals' being removed. The introduction of a national ID card would be a great start. Deny all services - social services, medical services, banking services, housing, employment - to those who don't have a card. Once they started starving they'd pretty sharpish be going back to their own countries. It's really not that difficult. Strange how you've ignored all the other points I made. Got no riposte? Or is my logic overwhelming your bigotry? |
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siampolee
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Post by siampolee on Feb 25, 2017 15:20:56 GMT 7
An amusing comment coming from a Scotsman who supports an independent Scotland with no governmental control from those English people as your comments in the past clearly show, in reality the comments you make upon the matter concerning The English as such is of no real concern to you.
You seem to think your opinions alone matter concerning a country or region you have neither an interest in or a loyalty to.
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Post by rgs2001uk on Feb 25, 2017 15:46:17 GMT 7
And hey, I get it. I understand it's emotive. However the alternative to having immigration rules is to have unfettered immigration. SP and AyG are long on record objecting to that. What they want to do is decide for themselves who should be entitled to enter the country. They want to be immigration officers. And call us British residents arrogant for objecting to expats thinking they have the right to import foreigners into the UK. I KNOW WHERE THE ARROGANCE LIES HERE, AND IT AIN'T ME. Ah, now we get to the nub of it. Many here probably reading through the lens of an expat overseas position, next time you are home talk to the locals. Two important events stick out, Brexit and the Tory landslide elction result, and still those in ivory towers dont get it. Blairs attempt to, build a new somalia in englands green and pleasant land. The silent majority were called xenophobes, anti xxxxx, trust us we are you masters we know better than you uneducated daily mail reading facists. Not mentioned, the practice of British women being auctioned off by their own families to the highest bidder. Not mentioned East European whores marrying those from elsewhere. Call me Dave from Chipping Norton may well have been unaware, so far up his own ass and out of touch will reality, but the voting public werent. Yes Blairs open doors policy will come back to haunt the labour party for years to come, and still commrade corbyn closes his ears. Many countries have strict laws on foreign spouses, its not just the UK. What would the bleeding hearts liberals suggest we implement? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 16:02:21 GMT 7
.............."For that matter, what about all the economic migrants from Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia and Sudan?"......................... If you directed this question at your UK Immigration dept. they would probably tell you that each year they work out a figure regarding how many people they want to come in to the country, then they split that up into different countries, percentage wise. So this year there will be "x" number of migrants allowed in from Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia and Sudan etc. I would imagine there is a certain percentage allowed in regarding Brits wanting to bring their spouses in, "x" amount per month and when the quota is filled they stop approving applications. They are not saying the people from these countries have more right to live in the UK than some gay SA engineer. |
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onionluke
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Post by onionluke on Feb 25, 2017 16:20:08 GMT 7
And hey, I get it. I understand it's emotive. However the alternative to having immigration rules is to have unfettered immigration. SP and AyG are long on record objecting to that. What they want to do is decide for themselves who should be entitled to enter the country. They want to be immigration officers. And call us British residents arrogant for objecting to expats thinking they have the right to import foreigners into the UK. I KNOW WHERE THE ARROGANCE LIES HERE, AND IT AIN'T ME. Ah, now we get to the nub of it. Many here probably reading through the lens of an expat overseas position, next time you are home talk to the locals. Two important events stick out, Brexit and the Tory landslide elction result, and still those in ivory towers dont get it. Blairs attempt to, build a new somalia in englands green and pleasant land. The silent majority were called xenophobes, anti xxxxx, trust us we are you masters we know better than you uneducated daily mail reading facists. Not mentioned, the practice of British women being auctioned off by their own families to the highest bidder. Not mentioned East European whores marrying those from elsewhere. Call me Dave from Chipping Norton may well have been unaware, so far up his own ass and out of touch will reality, but the voting public werent. Yes Blairs open doors policy will come back to haunt the labour party for years to come, and still commrade corbyn closes his ears. Many countries have strict laws on foreign spouses, its not just the UK. What would the bleeding hearts liberals suggest we implement? I wouldn't class myself as any type of liberal but I would suggest , in agreement with Ayg, that ID cards be introduced. |
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Feb 25, 2017 16:23:56 GMT 7
.............."For that matter, what about all the economic migrants from Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia and Sudan?"......................... If you directed this question at your UK Immigration dept. they would probably tell you that each year they work out a figure regarding how many people they want to come in to the country, then they split that up into different countries, percentage wise. So this year there will be "x" number of migrants allowed in from Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia and Sudan etc. I would imagine there is a certain percentage allowed in regarding Brits wanting to bring their spouses in, "x" amount per month and when the quota is filled they stop approving applications. They are not saying the people from these countries have more right to live in the UK than some gay SA engineer. Do you have any evidence for this mythical quota? Politicians have for years talked about limiting immigration, but it simply doesn't happen. To me that suggests "no quota". Immigration in the form of economic migrants from the Islamic hell-holes of the earth appears unfettered; immigration from the poverty-stricken parts of Europe is unfettered; bringing in one's loved one from somewhere outside Europe is, to put it mildly, challenging. |
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rubl
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Post by rubl on Feb 25, 2017 16:28:21 GMT 7
Who needs a quota if there are so much nicer ways. Bureaucracy, paperwork, restrictive office hours, any issue to mean a 'back to start without bonus'. Oh the fun of it all  |
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Post by rgs2001uk on Feb 25, 2017 16:34:45 GMT 7
Ah, now we get to the nub of it. Many here probably reading through the lens of an expat overseas position, next time you are home talk to the locals. Two important events stick out, Brexit and the Tory landslide elction result, and still those in ivory towers dont get it. Blairs attempt to, build a new somalia in englands green and pleasant land. The silent majority were called xenophobes, anti xxxxx, trust us we are you masters we know better than you uneducated daily mail reading facists. Not mentioned, the practice of British women being auctioned off by their own families to the highest bidder. Not mentioned East European whores marrying those from elsewhere. Call me Dave from Chipping Norton may well have been unaware, so far up his own ass and out of touch will reality, but the voting public werent. Yes Blairs open doors policy will come back to haunt the labour party for years to come, and still commrade corbyn closes his ears. Many countries have strict laws on foreign spouses, its not just the UK. What would the bleeding hearts liberals suggest we implement? I wouldn't class myself as any type of liberal but I would suggest , in agreement with Ayg, that ID cards be introduced. I dont know how ID cards are going to put an end to the 18 years old Fatimas of the world returning from a family holiday overseas and trying to import her 47 year old roti selling husband into the UK. Will id cards prevent polish whores from entering into sham marriages which cost the mainly asian husbands 6,000 quid a pop from taking place? Google Sham marriages UK for details. Yes the system may not be perfect, but to me its a dammed site better than the shambles we had before. |
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onionluke
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Post by onionluke on Feb 25, 2017 16:47:58 GMT 7
I wouldn't class myself as any type of liberal but I would suggest , in agreement with Ayg, that ID cards be introduced. I dont know how ID cards are going to put an end to the 18 years old Fatimas of the world returning from a family holiday overseas and trying to import her 47 year old roti selling husband into the UK. Will id cards prevent polish whores from entering into sham marriages which cost the mainly asian husbands 6,000 quid a pop from taking place? Google Sham marriages UK for details. Yes the system may not be perfect, but to me its a dammed site better than the shambles we had before. Yes , because they aren't given out willy nilly . One must apply, and meet requirements, through the government agencies. This system works very well here in HK. Without an ID card you cannot enter into the work force or use the system. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 20:26:30 GMT 7
.............."For that matter, what about all the economic migrants from Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia and Sudan?"......................... If you directed this question at your UK Immigration dept. they would probably tell you that each year they work out a figure regarding how many people they want to come in to the country, then they split that up into different countries, percentage wise. So this year there will be "x" number of migrants allowed in from Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia and Sudan etc. I would imagine there is a certain percentage allowed in regarding Brits wanting to bring their spouses in, "x" amount per month and when the quota is filled they stop approving applications. They are not saying the people from these countries have more right to live in the UK than some gay SA engineer. Do you have any evidence for this mythical quota? Politicians have for years talked about limiting immigration, but it simply doesn't happen. To me that suggests "no quota". Immigration in the form of economic migrants from the Islamic hell-holes of the earth appears unfettered; immigration from the poverty-stricken parts of Europe is unfettered; bringing in one's loved one from somewhere outside Europe is, to put it mildly, challenging. ................"Immigration in the form of economic migrants from the Islamic hell-holes of the earth appears unfettered".................. Well I did some research into the UK immigration figures and it does not agree with your opinion. You may be shocked to know the true numbers, not the imaginary ones floating around in your head. You remind me of Trump and his insane idea that people are just "walking in" to the country with little or no background checks etc. |
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siampolee
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Post by siampolee on Feb 25, 2017 20:35:45 GMT 7
All that needs to be done to sort fact from fiction is a proven documented record of a marriage or civil partnership for a five year period, D N A proof of the claimed children of the marriage and or proven details regarding adoption,along with proof of residence in the country of the foreign spouse for a minimum of five years.
The wherewithal to show the ability to support the applicant(s) for a 1 year period financially or family wise, no rights to welfare payments or free health care etc for 3 years and then only upon proof of a work and contributions record for a 3 year period.
Simple solution which limits the sham marriage issue.
The identity card issue along the lines of the Hong Kong system as mentioned by onionluke is indeed worthy of consideration and ultimately implementation.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Feb 25, 2017 20:50:42 GMT 7
Do you have any evidence for this mythical quota? Politicians have for years talked about limiting immigration, but it simply doesn't happen. To me that suggests "no quota". Immigration in the form of economic migrants from the Islamic hell-holes of the earth appears unfettered; immigration from the poverty-stricken parts of Europe is unfettered; bringing in one's loved one from somewhere outside Europe is, to put it mildly, challenging. ................"Immigration in the form of economic migrants from the Islamic hell-holes of the earth appears unfettered".................. Well I did some research into the UK immigration figures and it does not agree with your opinion. You may be shocked to know the true numbers, not the imaginary ones floating around in your head. You remind me of Trump and his insane idea that people are just "walking in" to the country with little or no background checks etc. So, you've done the research, now please stop evading the point and answer the question: "Do you have any evidence for this mythical quota"? My understanding (and I'd be happy to be proven wrong) is that when it comes to refugees (aka economic migrants), there is no quota, and they are admitted based upon their individual circumstances. In other words, if sufficient economic migrants turn up with sufficiently heart-rending sob stories they will all be admitted. Right or wrong? |
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