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Post by Fletchsmile on Nov 25, 2016 16:39:17 GMT 7
Do you think (cheaper) "accident only" will be acceptable? Can anyone see any logic in the insurance amounts being specified in USD rather than THB? Currency fluctuations might invalidated previously purchased Thai insurance. And (since I currently can't be bothered to do the research) does anyone know how much the minimum insurance is likely to cost? I'd doubt accident only would be acceptable. They'd want covering for falling sick. Last time I got some quotes was about 5 years ago. So they are well out of date now, but give an idea of what was around in Thailand when I was weighing it up. Could well be better out there now but I wasn't impressed at the time: Basic cover which was in the ball parks mentioned in the article THB 300k - THB 600k maximum in patient payout Premiums were just over 51-55 THB 9,255 (for 300k) to 30,642 for 600k 56-60 THB 11,378 (for 300k) to 37,675 for 600k 61-65 THB 14,824 (for 300k) to 49,082 for 600k These were inpatient only. For maximum outpatient deluxe in addition you could ball park double the premiums Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted
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Post by Fletchsmile on Nov 25, 2016 16:46:47 GMT 7
Platinum package which was more a reflection of what might be needed for a serious medical condition. THB 1mn to THB 5mn Premiums were 51-55 THB 40k (for 1mn) to 53k for 5mn inpatient only, or 85k with max outpatient and inpatient 56-60 THB 50k (for 1mn) to 65k for 5mn inpatient only, or 103k with max outpatient and inpatient 61-65 THB 65k (for 1mn) to 85k for 5mn inpatient only, or 131k with maximum outpatient and inpatient Attachment DeletedAttachment DeletedOther factors to consider are the family aspects: - whether you insure family members or not. Under 5 years was particularly expensive - which 5 years ago for us was a factor. - if you're working and will continue to do so, you may well be able to cover expenses for other family members out of current earnings. As the breadwinner it may be more important to focus on insuring yourself to prevent the double whammy of not being able to work and losing earnings, while also extra expenses of medical bills. i.e drop in income and increase in expenses - on the other hand if you're not working (as possible in the visa option) you may not suffer the drop in income if your main money is from investments and pensions, but obviously your expenses may go up.
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Post by Fletchsmile on Nov 25, 2016 17:08:03 GMT 7
Maybe someone else has more up to date quotes for what they currently pay...
For the cheaper packages which would align with the minimums in the article, if you think we have a family of 4 the premiums didn't make sense to me to get only 600k coverage per person.
Something like Soutpeel got is a much better package, but again outside Thailand
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me
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Post by me on Nov 25, 2016 17:27:53 GMT 7
It is interesting that in the Malasian scheme thought Health Insurance is necescary it is waived for all applicants over 65
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sl
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Post by sl on Nov 25, 2016 17:34:07 GMT 7
Do you think (cheaper) "accident only" will be acceptable? Can anyone see any logic in the insurance amounts being specified in USD rather than THB? Currency fluctuations might invalidated previously purchased Thai insurance. And (since I currently can't be bothered to do the research) does anyone know how much the minimum insurance is likely to cost? I don’t have the minimum. But maybe another example along with Fletchsmile can help. My insurance (Bupa) is quoted in US dollars. I have more coverage than what is required from what the Thai cabinet approved/required last week. I’m 59 and paid 39,872.00 (Thai baht) for the full 2017 year a couple weeks ago. They send me a check (percentage – maybe 10%) back every year because I have never used the insurance. I’ve carried it for over 5 years here in Thailand. Now let’s compare. My insurance for coverage in the US this next year will be just north of 16,800.00 (US). Yes I do have one of the best policies Florida Blue sells here and I don’t get sick and in excellent health. Last time I was in the hospital in the states was well over 20 years ago, for viral meningitis. As you can probably tell from the info listed above,………I don’t like risk and for the most part, don’t take it.
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Post by Fletchsmile on Nov 25, 2016 17:57:58 GMT 7
There are two different discussions here. Those of us, Sir Polee, myself, who intend to pop our clogs here in Thailand and those who will return to die in their home country. If Fletch were to become incapacitated in Thailand, thus unable to work, to self insure, he would return to England I presume. The option he puts forward is not for those who have "gone native". My simple suggestions are for the long term permanent expats, die where you are, expats.Retired expats. Going back to the UK for medical reasons would hopefully be a last choice As you say though there's more than one discussion around this. This is the main problem I have with the visa condition. Different people have different needs and views. People could end up with inappropriate insurance coverage - too small, not enough or wasted money. Tying people into insurance products that may not be suitable for them is not the right direction to go. As AyG nailed early on that level of coverage doesn't align with a THB 3mio visa and that level of coverage could well be a waste of money After that the visa itself is just too inflexible as people's circumstances are different, eg based on what I know of some of the posters on here AyG retired decent financial position - the insurance would be a waste of money Naam - similar waste of money, but if it made life easier he'd just buy it Seb - single guy - probably really should have some form of insurance protection given his age and where he is in his financial life cycle Soutpeel - international expat - small price to pay out of an international O&G salary particularly if access to international insurance products. Wouldn't necessarily want to have to buy a poor quality local insurance product though. SirPolee, buhi, Me etc - would probably prefer a normal retirement visa. Insurance choice depends on outlook on life. Definitely wouldn't be wrong to purchase insurance for peace of mind. Myself - tend to way up the financials (perhaps too much sometimes ) - would rather stick THB 400k in a bank account for a marriage visa and keep the additional THB 2.6 mn as a reserve for other things, including medical expenses So none of those people above (perhaps with the exception of Naam) I would say are ideal candidates for the visa, which is too inflexible, and many people would likely be better off with something else.
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AyG
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Post by AyG on Nov 25, 2016 18:15:03 GMT 7
AyG retired decent financial position - the insurance would be a waste of money Absolutely a waste of money. I have sufficient preexisting conditions (none serious, thankfully) that virtually nothing (apart from accident) would be covered. I am rather surprised at how high the premia quoted have been, too. If it had been, say 1,000 baht/year for minimal coverage I'd have been OK with it. As it is, the cost of insurance makes this a "no" for me, despite how much I hate spending hours sitting in Chaengwattana's under-cooled office on hard chairs and being turfed out at lunchtime to hang around with nowhere comfortable to sit or anything decent to eat. And that's after the long drive there leaving home long before any godly human is awake.
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buhi
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Post by buhi on Nov 25, 2016 19:00:03 GMT 7
There you go, the finance guys have it nailed. It is a con, of no use to an expat retired in Thailand. If over 50,and you have no pre existing conditions, then you are fortunate and the minority. Most of my daily aches are the result of a motorcycle accident when I was twenty five, the shattered bones are now arthritic. No point in trying to pretend to an insurance company that this was not a pre existing condition. On the three occasions I have had to stay overnight in hospital in Thailand , it has been for steroid treatment ; I am resistant to non steroid whatever they ares and allergic now to the powerful one I used to have prescribed in extreme bouts. If you are old, you learn to live with it, no use pretending that youth is still yours just around the corner. We grow old and die, simple basic Buddhism. My dog died, it had no insurance, passport or need to get an annual visa. Died naturally as it happened, but I would have assisted her death if she had been suffering. This is a new nonsense of statistics, numbers dying of this and that. Non of the stats states the obvious, old age. Yes, you are more likely to die of something because you are old. What a revelation.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 21:27:28 GMT 7
The first assumption that too many expats make is that they, themselves, would be compos mentis.
The second is that they would be fit to travel back to the UK.
A gentleman mentioned on this forum last year broke his hip and endured eighteen months or so of agony - unable in his case to get to his general insurance coverage in the Philippines. A failed operation drew down his cash reserves, and he was a good example of the second type - unfit to travel, uninsured in Thailand.
Another recent case saw a gentleman have a heart attack, and he was under for over twenty minutes before being revived. Non-compos mentis to this day, his brother had to fly in from Australia and repatriate him with a full medical team. In his case, he was insured.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 21:36:31 GMT 7
There you go, the finance guys have it nailed. It is a con, of no use to an expat retired in Thailand. If over 50,and you have no pre existing conditions, then you are fortunate and the minority. Most of my daily aches are the result of a motorcycle accident when I was twenty five, the shattered bones are now arthritic. No point in trying to pretend to an insurance company that this was not a pre existing condition. On the three occasions I have had to stay overnight in hospital in Thailand , it has been for steroid treatment ; I am resistant to non steroid whatever they ares and allergic now to the powerful one I used to have prescribed in extreme bouts. If you are old, you learn to live with it, no use pretending that youth is still yours just around the corner. We grow old and die, simple basic Buddhism. My dog died, it had no insurance, passport or need to get an annual visa. Died naturally as it happened, but I would have assisted her death if she had been suffering. This is a new nonsense of statistics, numbers dying of this and that. Non of the stats states the obvious, old age. Yes, you are more likely to die of something because you are old. What a revelation. Why is it a con? It's just another type of paid-for visa.
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buhi
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Post by buhi on Nov 26, 2016 7:56:10 GMT 7
A con of sorts then. It concerns me that Thailand , for monetary reasons, would seek to increase the number of retirees. I may be wrong, but a certain demographic is attracted to Thailand in their twi light years. Note, I moved here in my forties and not to retire, to work. It so happens that I reached retirement age here, married with a son.
Thailand is not a good place for old men to retire. The immediate charms are short lived, and any old retiree would be glad too to be short lived, after losing all his , YES HIS, money.
The health insurance does not cover gold diggers. And gold diggers are not the best insurance for a happy retirement.
Dare I seperate some of our posters into groups; well I will.
Those in a genuine marriage to a Thai with children. Those working here for a long time, but not intending to retire here, but they might. Those who visit regularly, spend long spells here and other places, but maintain a home base in their country. Those who holiday here.
I am married, long time, with a now teenage son. Have retired, but partly for health reasons, mainly as my profession prohibits me working past the age of sixty.
I would not, could not, live in Thailand as a single old man. The worst place on earth. Beautiful women everywhere, smiling, enticing, often willing. I know Thai culture and the signals are confusing to the novice. I could not, would not, live in Thailand without being part of an extended family. A country with no welfare system, where the family is the major support at all times in all cicumstances. Thailand is family.
Why then encourage foriegners to retire here? They will be on their own in a wolves den.
A con, for cash.
The visa in question, smiles like a Thai hooker.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2016 11:32:04 GMT 7
A con of sorts then. It concerns me that Thailand , for monetary reasons, would seek to increase the number of retirees. I may be wrong, but a certain demographic is attracted to Thailand in their twi light years. Note, I moved here in my forties and not to retire, to work. It so happens that I reached retirement age here, married with a son. Thailand is not a good place for old men to retire. The immediate charms are short lived, and any old retiree would be glad too to be short lived, after losing all his , YES HIS, money. The health insurance does not cover gold diggers. And gold diggers are not the best insurance for a happy retirement. Dare I seperate some of our posters into groups; well I will. Those in a genuine marriage to a Thai with children. Those working here for a long time, but not intending to retire here, but they might. Those who visit regularly, spend long spells here and other places, but maintain a home base in their country. Those who holiday here. I am married, long time, with a now teenage son. Have retired, but partly for health reasons, mainly as my profession prohibits me working past the age of sixty. I would not, could not, live in Thailand as a single old man. The worst place on earth. Beautiful women everywhere, smiling, enticing, often willing. I know Thai culture and the signals are confusing to the novice. I could not, would not, live in Thailand without being part of an extended family. A country with no welfare system, where the family is the major support at all times in all cicumstances. Thailand is family. Why then encourage foriegners to retire here? They will be on their own in a wolves den. A con, for cash. The visa in question, smiles like a Thai hooker. I agree with your assessment. I'm not interested in retiring to Thailand, never have been. I don't know why I should restrict myself to one country in retirement.
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Post by Fletchsmile on Nov 26, 2016 12:31:47 GMT 7
..... My simple advice to the younger long term expats is to take out a policy now and keep it, continue it. Once you have a policy, a good one, it is not cancelled by age. I could not take out my policy now, but the terms clearly state it can not be cancelled if I renew each year. The premium does not increase much, if you make no claims. .... Worth considering as you say... Be very careful with the fine print on the policies though. While they may have a guaranteed renewal clause, there are other clauses that may undermine this. Generally the legal protection in Thailand around insurance policies is weaker than UK. Consumer protection is definitely less. One common clause is the right to adjust premiums in accordance with age and risk profile. While age is not really an issue, risk profile could be. If you develop a serious medical condition and start claiming you may well find that the premiums increase significantly the following year. While you may be allowed to renew they may hike the premiums to such an extent it might become prohibitive. Another possibility is them excluding conditions in future renewals. For one-off events such as an accident this might be OK, heart attack might be more questionnable. If you develop a long term medical condition that needs repeated treatment like cancer though you might not realistically be able to count on renewal at a decent rate rate indefinitely or they may suddenly start excluding particular conditions which might be medically linked. To an extent an insurance policy for long term conditions may effectively only be good until the end of the policy year if the fine print has these type of get out clauses for the insurance company. So fine print rears its ugly head again
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Post by mrcmkelly on Nov 26, 2016 13:14:08 GMT 7
A con of sorts then. It concerns me that Thailand , for monetary reasons, would seek to increase the number of retirees. I may be wrong, but a certain demographic is attracted to Thailand in their twi light years. Note, I moved here in my forties and not to retire, to work. It so happens that I reached retirement age here, married with a son. Thailand is not a good place for old men to retire. The immediate charms are short lived, and any old retiree would be glad too to be short lived, after losing all his , YES HIS, money. The health insurance does not cover gold diggers. And gold diggers are not the best insurance for a happy retirement. Dare I seperate some of our posters into groups; well I will. Those in a genuine marriage to a Thai with children. Those working here for a long time, but not intending to retire here, but they might. Those who visit regularly, spend long spells here and other places, but maintain a home base in their country. Those who holiday here. I am married, long time, with a now teenage son. Have retired, but partly for health reasons, mainly as my profession prohibits me working past the age of sixty. I would not, could not, live in Thailand as a single old man. The worst place on earth. Beautiful women everywhere, smiling, enticing, often willing. I know Thai culture and the signals are confusing to the novice. I could not, would not, live in Thailand without being part of an extended family. A country with no welfare system, where the family is the major support at all times in all cicumstances. Thailand is family. Why then encourage foriegners to retire here? They will be on their own in a wolves den. A con, for cash. The visa in question, smiles like a Thai hooker. I agree with your assessment. I'm not interested in retiring to Thailand, never have been. I don't know why I should restrict myself to one country in retirement. I can think of hundreds of reasons to retire here. Health care is still affordable (I'm a disabled vet so government pays) and much better than at a VA hospital in the States. I really have always liked 18 to 26 year old women and here they are plentiful and affordable. Going out for a night on the town is cheap and fun. My dog likes it here (rescued Thai soi dog and my best friend). It costs me a pittance and 20 minutes to get to the airport and fly to Peneng or Singapore for Chinese and Indian food. I've got 4k TV and am high tech for all my appliances. My watch is hooked to my handset which is hooked to my phone and TV and the whole estate is on live IP cam and guarded by my private army.
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Post by mrcmkelly on Nov 26, 2016 13:18:36 GMT 7
Agree with the insurance thing,too- and I'm a long way of retirement! My flatmate suffered from ruptured appendix back in Thailand and he had no insurance; it ended up costing him a pretty penny and the deducted the bill from his TEFL salary. If you move overseas I would have thought and hoped that taking care of healthcare would be at the top of our list regardless of age- should be anyway. My insurance is average in coverage and cost less than 600 quid for the year- a bargain IMO for peace of mind rather than anything else. I had a ruptured appendix here. Cost me 30,000 baht at Sattahip hospital as I remember. Blocked artery heart at Bangkok Rayong 108,000.
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